WIP`it! Into Shape! FOKKER~E.III

[Tim West]

reign in blood.....

[Tim West]

Welcome to my Fokker E.III WIP 2009!!!!! All crits and comments are greatly appreciated


So every time I start a new plane I think, "this time I wont hyper model this plane" . Lol and every time....!!! I cant help myself What's different this time is that I'm doing it on purpose and as part of a greater plan. One key difference here and my previous models is that , while it will have lots of details, it's far more refined and I'm not as liberal with my polys this time.

I'm trying to be "efficient" for once =) I want to see how "little" is "enough" and only smooth when I really need too. That in mind though, I've inserted geometry in key locations so that I can apply a mesh smooth with no problems. Just in case I need to increase the resolution of the mesh. And by mapping before any "smooths" it saves time and head ache. Workflow workflow workflow

...and so far...


At this stage, I'm still working on the structure and will continue by adding nuts, bolts, screws, rivets and the like. Also complete the cockpit.

There's still a fair amount of tweaking in the area of the gun supports.

Yes..that's a gnome..its from my DH-2. I will at this point keep it as is. But I will be adding the rest of the engine parts.

I may redo the SMG mesh. Lol, this on is like 6 years old and now I have drawings. The current mesh is a little out of scale.

I would like to do a schwarzlose perhaps .

Anyhow there's a lot let to do =)

Lastly if anyone who has some photos of the upper area of the gas/oil and ammo cans..from the top without the panels on...would be outstanding! The data file is good but really only from the side. I have no photos of how the stuff in that area attaches.

Also, I have only just begun to do some color work ups but I'm curious what the feeling is here about the tubing color?? Is it green, beige, grey or light blue? In period photo's it could any of those. The example in London is kind of beige while the replica in San Diego is light blue..

....thanks all for having a look!

[Cigogne]

Tim,

Very nice E.III. I can send you a postcard of a painting showing what the E.II-III colors were. It was painted during 1915-16 of Eduard Boehme's combat. It is the color of a butter biscuit. I'll dig it up and send you.

Aaron

[josef scott]

Tim,

Looking good so far!

First thing, though - the lMG 08/15 has to go - only lMG 08's (or your Schwarzlose) need apply.

There is no surviving info on the colour of the frame that I know of. Neither the English or French made any note of it in the reports on the machines they captured. The French do mention that the Fokker A.II monoplane in their possession had the fuselage tubes wrapped in oil-cloth. As you noted, the colour is pretty uniformly light, including the under-carriage, so I personally would go with light grey or grey-green.

Speaking of the under-carriage, the 2 "V" pylons are constructed of oblong cross-section tubing, 40mm at its widest point. The other struts are 35mm circular cross-section tubing, save the central connecting piece which appears to be 25mm. This info comes from Jean LaGorgette's 1916 article. Don't forget that all 6 moving struts connected to the wheels have streamlined fairings strapped to them. One last thing about the u/c: you won't find it on any drawing I've seen, but the axles are NOT straight. Seen from the front, the ends "flatten out" a few degrees right about where the other struts are hinged to them, making the wheels much closer to vertical than usually illustrated.

One of the best photos I've seen of the gas/oil/ammo arrangement is photo 28 in the E.I/E.II datafile. It is mislabeled as an M5 frame, but is in fact most certainly an M14, probably the 1st machine to receive the full interior ammunition storage, with only the oil/gas filler arrangement left from the E.II configuration. Standard production E.IIIs have the fillers closer together and staggered.

Great to see you have the wing-storage bar in place already!

Keep it up, Tim!

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by Cigogne

Tim,

Very nice E.III. I can send you a postcard of a painting showing what the E.II-III colors were. It was painted during 1915-16 of Eduard Boehme's combat. It is the color of a butter biscuit. I'll dig it up and send you.

Aaron

Hi Aaron ...thanks for having a look. Please "do" send the pic...At your convenience of course =)

I enjoy period drawing and paintings....great references for color.

Thanks again

zoysgig@gmail.com

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by josef scott

Tim,

Looking good so far!

First thing, though - the lMG 08/15 has to go - only lMG 08's (or your Schwarzlose) need apply.

There is no surviving info on the colour of the frame that I know of. Neither the English or French made any note of it in the reports on the machines they captured. The French do mention that the Fokker A.II monoplane in their possession had the fuselage tubes wrapped in oil-cloth. As you noted, the colour is pretty uniformly light, including the under-carriage, so I personally would go with light grey or grey-green.

Speaking of the under-carriage, the 2 "V" pylons are constructed of oblong cross-section tubing, 40mm at its widest point. The other struts are 35mm circular cross-section tubing, save the central connecting piece which appears to be 25mm. This info comes from Jean LaGorgette's 1916 article. Don't forget that all 6 moving struts connected to the wheels have streamlined fairings strapped to them. One last thing about the u/c: you won't find it on any drawing I've seen, but the axles are NOT straight. Seen from the front, the ends "flatten out" a few degrees right about where the other struts are hinged to them, making the wheels much closer to vertical than usually illustrated.

One of the best photos I've seen of the gas/oil/ammo arrangement is photo 28 in the E.I/E.II datafile. It is mislabeled as an M5 frame, but is in fact most certainly an M14, probably the 1st machine to receive the full interior ammunition storage, with only the oil/gas filler arrangement left from the E.II configuration. Standard production E.IIIs have the fillers closer together and staggered.

Great to see you have the wing-storage bar in place already!

Keep it up, Tim!

Thanks Josef =)

I did some quick reading on the guns , as i'm not much of a gun guy. So, SMG is wrong..and I see I should be saying LMG or lMG . So a 08 would not have carried a "L" but a "l"? I guessing the LMG would have been for 08/15s . Besides the sight and the butt ends being different.. did the 08's have the rear mounted site...like the LMG's? I'll see what else I can find.

I dont have that datafile. At 80 bucks for a copy on amazon I dont think I will be getting it either I've located a copy of the EIII in action and will pick that up. I have the EIII datafile and it's great...lol..but you know how it is , there's never that one photo your looking for.

Great info on the undercarriage. I have the oblong shape but have not added the add on pieces to the other items yet. It seems not all of them had them installed.? I had thought the axles may have been bent. When I was adding the wheels , I realized that there is way too much camber to the wheels. I couldnt really get mine to look like the photos. I'll correct that.

Also about bent pieces, the London EIII appears to have the control bar bent...but in the datafile, the bar is straight. Till I find out more, it will stay straight.

I sort of like your color for the tubing. I dont think the EIIIs were wrapped though..atleast it doesnt appear so. What about the Cellon covered EIIIs? In the photos the tubing and struts "appear" lighter than standard EIII's. I wonder if on those planes the tubing and struts were light blue?

Lol...thanks for noticing the stowage bar.. the little piece further down is there too. It took me a week to figure out what that was for. I was like WTF does that do. Good times =) Any ideas how the wing actually attached to the bar?

Ok..no more questions for now

Thanks for the helpful comments.

[Sreiko]

Go go go go!!!! I am waiting for next masterpiece

[josef scott]

Hi Tim,

"lMG" is a lower-case "L". There is an entire thread concerning why it is lower-case and what it exactly stands for, but LMG certainly makes it more plain. Have a close look at the MGs on pages 19-23 in the datafile - should answer your question about the sight. The photo on p.23 shows the sight folded down.

Regarding the u/c streamline fairings, every photo of an Eindecker in the field shows them in place. Only photos at the factory prior to shipment occasionally seem to lack them. A number of the pics of a/c awaiting repair show the fairings jarred loose and swiveled out of alignment. The photos of E.III 210/16 after capture show them in place, but, of course, the remains hung up in the Science Museum have long-since lost them(along with a number of other items).

210/16 (London E.III) was dropped at some point in time, damaging the frame. As you noticed, the control bar is bent, as are both of the curved tubes meant to shape the underside panel of the nose. I believe the tabs to which the front u/c pylon was attached to were snapped of and repaired with bolted-on pieces as well.

I know what you mean about the oil-cloth. I haven't seen any photo where I can positively make it out either, but was not this practice continued on later Fokker product? Don't think it would be visible on "dressed" aircraft, and a stripped view is, well, stripped.

Your thoughts on the colour are as good as anybody's - maybe just keep the tone light and subdued.

If you look closely at the photos of the wings of 210/16, you'll notice pins attached to the underside of the foreward spar, one just inside of the first rib and another between rib 9 & 10. These slip into the lugs you have, with a strap binding the 2 wings together at the outside trailing edge when they are in place.

Regarding resources, the"In Action" book has lots of great pictures, but the drawings and pretty much all of the text are misleading, worse than worthless. If you can track it down, Cross & Cockade Vol 12, No 1, 1981 has Phillip Jarrett's first-rate article on 210/16, which I cannot recommend highly enough. Lagorgette's "L'Aerophile" article is also essential and available online. I'll try to find the link.

[Tim West]

I'll search for the thread. I read else where that the "l" small L was for light and the capital "L" was for luft or aviation gun...with the rear sight I reckon. Now that I'm aware of the differences, I know what to be looking for for =)

Thanks for answering my next question about the fairings. When were they attached. And you're right...a lot of those photos are at Fokker. So, I'll be sure to add them.

206/16 being dropped makes sense. I've seen the repairs and wondered what happened.

About the linen strips...afaik, it was done only in some spots. For wear protection maybe. Any DR.I stuff I have doesnt appear to indicate the frame being wrapped. Granted..there not much in the way of clear photos.. I'll keep this in mind as I get more photos and review what I already have.

Yeah the in action series are great for photos but sometimes are a little iffy on storyline =) For me the photos are the bread and butter. Drawings are ok but photos are the best record. I do my best pick out what was artistic license and what was really there..or not there What I do like is that they usually always have some nice photos that arent in the Datafiles.

Again, thanks for the helpful post and by all means stop by from time to time =)

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by Sreiko

Go go go go!!!! I am waiting for next masterpiece

thanks for the encouragement!