Guynemer quotation ?

[TomVrille]

In Guynemer - The Ace of Aces by Jacques Mortane (English translation by C. H. Levy), 1918, Guynemer relates the following incident involving a German two-seater that had just been surprised by a high speed pass at very short range:

"...I saw the observer who was aboard the aeroplane make a tremendous leap into the air, as if shot upward by a spring, and fall back, but not into the fuselage. Ther poor fellow landed all alone! I had time to photograph him with a special apparatus which makes it possible for me to bring back indisputable proofs of my victories."

This incident is described at the end of Chapter XXI in Mortane's book.

My question is: Does anyone out there in forumland have Mortane's book in the original French version, and would they comment on the accuracy of the translated passage shown above?? And BTW, does anyone know what became of the photograph of the falling observer?

[Philippe JOURDAN]

I have this book.... somewhere.... in a parcel.... I am moving my office...
But I will place your question to a friend..... Who is not moving....
Please be patient...
Philippe

[TomVrille]

While waiting patiently for some response to my original question, an additional question came to mind. I know that several well-known French aces (eg Guynemer, and Nungesser) mounted some sort of gun camera on their machines, but I don't know if there was ever any official position taken on the value of photographic evidence that might be obtained. For example, could a photograph take the place of one of the ground witnesses required for confirmation of an aerial victory?

[TomVrille]

Just on the off chance that someone new to the Aerodrome may have some information on this old post from last March, I'll send it out for one last sortie:

"In Guynemer - The Ace of Aces by Jacques Mortane (English translation by C. H. Levy), 1918, Guynemer relates the following incident involving a German two-seater that had just been surprised by a high speed pass at very short range:

"...I saw the observer who was aboard the aeroplane make a tremendous leap into the air, as if shot upward by a spring, and fall back, but not into the fuselage. Ther poor fellow landed all alone! I had time to photograph him with a special apparatus which makes it possible for me to bring back indisputable proofs of my victories."

This incident is described at the end of Chapter XXI in Mortane's book.

My question is: Does anyone out there in forumland have Mortane's book in the original French version, and would they comment on the accuracy of the translated passage shown above?? And BTW, does anyone know what became of the photograph of the falling observer?"

With this follow-up question going along in the back seat....

I know that several well-known French aces (eg Guynemer, and Nungesser) mounted some sort of gun camera on their machines, but I don't know if there was ever any official position taken on the value of photographic evidence that might be obtained. For example, could a photograph take the place of one of the ground witnesses required for confirmation of an aerial victory?

[gilles]

Hello

There is the same quotation in "carré d'as" page 99. Direct translation, same words.
For what it's worth, "Carré d'as : Guynemer-Nungesser-Madon-Dorme" was published in 1934; there is no french version of "Guynemer- the ace of aces". The domestic autorized biography was written by Henry Bordeaux de l'Académie Française: "Le chevalier de l'air - La vie héroique de Guynemer". Guynemer's family gave him a lot of material (and beside that Mortane was just a sport journalist ).

I have never seen the picture of the falling observer. Pictures of the camera gun have been published. They were part of Guynemer's personal album but in publications are credited "SHAA" (now renamed SHD-air), the historical records of army, so I guess that's where they are now.

The air-to-air pictures are captioned and signed by Guynemer and his CO, Brocard, with the mention "certifié exact" so it seems they were intended to be used for victory homologation (I don't think Guynemer had a business idea in mind ).
However, even if the pictures show german planes in Guynemer's 12 o'clock, and sometimes at short distance (15 meters!), there is no evidence of any damage to the planes. Maybe the camera shooted its picture with the m/gun trigger, so before the target was hit, I don't know?
Anyway, as the pictures ended up in Guynemer's personal album and not in the army files, I guess the idea was considered useless for victory confirmation.

Gilles

[TomVrille]

Gilles-

Many thanks for the clarification! I probably should have guessed that Mortane's book was strictly for export in light of the dedication:

TO THE
AMERICAN AVIATOR
THIS ENGLISH EDITION IS
DEDICATED
THAT HE MAY BE INSPIRED BY THE INDOMITABLE
SPIRIT FOR VICTORY OF THE
YOUTHFUL DAVID OF THE AIR
GEORGES GUYNEMER

I suppose one must take those 'sports journalists' with a grain of salt!