The Real Mauve

[JFM]

Hello,

During the last few days I've been searching these fora for Albatros D.II/III/V (especially the latter) wing camo information, because it seems each publication I have renders the colors a little differently--even for the same aircraft, and more so when it comes to Mauve.

There have been many colorful (sorry) textual descriptions concerning Mauve, and there were many posts concerning the effects of weathering, etc. Regardless, there seemed to be definite starting point to what Mauve was and was not. As Dan-San put it: "Lilac and mauve are NOT purple, they are pale pink tinged with greyish blue. they are PINK!" Still, I often see Mauve depicted as purple as grape bubblegum and much darker.

Will somebody please post a (some) thumbnail jpeg(s) of the hue that best represents Mauve as it appeared on the Albatros? Also, was Mauve's accompanying dark green the same dark green that appeared with the D.III's pale brunswick green and venetian red, or was it some other shade of green?

I apologize if this subject is a bit tired but I'm still learning--thank you for your patience!

[jumpinjan]

JFM,
By referencing my handy Methuen Book of Color, I rendered the original samples that Ray Rimell collected and posted the codes in the Datafiles. I do not have the specific Albatros DataFile in front of me, but if you do, check these color codes and see if they are the same. I would guess that they are the same. I would chose the palest mauve & green and not the intense darker colors. Maybe Dan-San could jump in here and make a comment on the direction we should go.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Juminjan:
The 15D4 mauve is what I believe Albatros used. The Dark olive is Methuen Code 3E5. Jan could you please post 3E6. Also post 27C4, greyish green and 6E8 rust brown.
The Icon that JFM has is Ltn.Udet' Alb.D.III 1941/16. The colors and pattern very close to correct.
Blue skies,
Dan-san

Some of the "mauve " look grey. And some of the "Green" look more blue. That one green even looked aqua.

[jumpinjan]

Dan-San,
Here are the other three colors that you wanted. I just eyeball the colors so there's a very slight error to accurately match the Methuen color chips to my monitor (a Samsung SyncMaster 712n, flat screen).

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Jumpinjan:
The olive you have shown is too light, it is more green and darker. More like 1E5. Look at the dark olive on JFM Albatros Icon. It is more like 1E5.
Change 3E6 thumbnail to 1E5. Also let us add sky blue 23B4. Those are the Albatros camouflage colors.
Another British document describes the brown as venetian red which is 8E8. This same document describes the olive green which the Methuen Handbook codes as 2F6 which very dark, much too dark when comparing the grey tones in photographs.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Jagdpanzer]

Gentlemen, I do hope that you continue with this thread, as I am very interested in seeing the olive, venetian, and sky blue shades Dan San referred to....

[jumpinjan]

I did the best that I could on the matching, they should be close.
Jan

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Jumpimjan:
You/ve got it! those who are interested in the Albatros Werke colors they are:
Upper surfaces: Dark olive green, 2E5-6 to 2F6.
Pale greyish green, 27C4.
Rust brown 6E6, to Venetian red 8E8.
Underside color: Pastel greyish blue 23B4.
some of the Alb.D.I and all the Alb.D.II machines ordered from the Albatros Werke, all the 1916 orders for the Albatros D.III were camouflaged in these colors.
The 1917 orders issued to the Albatros Werke for the Albatros D.III were camouflaged in two colors only, dark olive green and pale greyish green as specified above. This came about at the same time that Idflieg issued the directive eliminating the use of red browns in the camouflage schemes.
The Albatros Werke had at least six different upper surface patterns that I have been able to identify. The patterns are consistent throughout the Albatros production for contemporary types that were in production at the same time. The Albatros Werke patterns assymetrical. with one of the top colors dominate, generally the pale greyish ble or the dark olive green, occassionaly the rust brown. Look at the Icon on JFM, the dominate color is the pale greyish green, and at a distance the venetian red/rust brown and dark olive green merge and presents a single color.
When you look at a photograph the darkest grey tone on the upper or side surface is the dark olive green, next darkest color is the rust brown and the lightest grey tone is the pale greyish green.
On the subject of the fuselage I believe the the plywood surface was shellacked with yellow shellac and then varnished. In combat reports, intelligence studies of captured they refer to the fuselage being yellow! If the fuselage is shellacked with white shellac and varnished ,it results in straw yellow which is define as 3B4, which at best is a pastel greyish yellow. In a video I have of the Albatros factory making Alb.D.III aircraft, the fuselages and fins had a high piano finish. They were not stained!
All metal parts, radiator, plumbing, spinner, cowlings, access doors fittings foot steps, etc. were painted whitest greenish grey ( very pale grey, tinged green), approximating 29C2.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[JFM]

Dan-San & jumpinjan:

111,475,321 thank you's for posting all that! This thread has gone above and beyond the call of duty!

For me, this is the Camouflage Rosetta Stone: "When you look at a photograph the darkest grey tone on the upper or side surface is the dark olive green, next darkest color is the rust brown and the lightest grey tone is the pale greyish green." Dovetailed with the Methuen color chips, stellar, stellar information.

Any way to post the 6 different camo patterns here?

Again, thank you for helping me learn!

JFM