Fokker D8 wing streaking test update

WinterHawke · 16 June 2005, 12:45 PM

"If I can give a critique of your wing above it is that you have angled the brush strokes too much, in the Fokker factory photo above, the angle is about one rib bay for the wing chord, adjacent to the inboard side of the port aileron.

Do you have any photos of the fuselage that you could post?"

Later tonight I'll try to post some pictures of the complete machine (wing not yet stained) taken at a recent Fly-In, but in the meantime, Glenn has a photo on his website of Del's model ( www.gtmodels.com ).

We did debate the slope of the streaking, whether to go one rib bay as verbally mentioned on some of the posts, or two - we decided to go with two based on Dan-San's drawings. As this is the basis of the documentation that will be presented on the machine, that's how we went. Note that these can be seen - barely - in the first photo in this thread, just ahead of the left leading edge. That first photo shows us using heavy string to give us a sight line to define the color break - no masking as we felt it should be a soft break, not a hard line.

The drawings, bye the bye, were moved to safety waayyy out of harms way when we got ready to apply the stain - I could just see that oops waiting to catch us

!

'til later tonight,

Lee McDuffee

deljon · 16 June 2005, 02:45 PM

Since Lee is kind enough to post some pictures of the rest of the plane this evening, (can't figure out how to downsize the photo's or I'd do it), thought I'd tell you a little about it.
I started with GTM's low cost DVIII kit then decided to kick it up a notch, I put in the cockpit kit, ammo box, ( I have to do the return chutes yet), also used Glenn's lozenge fabric. Went with Mick Reeves wheels for the scale profile.
A little over a year ago, Lee sent me the link to the thread on Aerodrome talking about the streaked wing. He thought that I might be interested. Needless to say I was (always thought that olive wing was boring) and being a bit of a rebel I decided to throw all caution to the wind and go with it.
After reading a bit more about the wing I discovered that it was covered in overlapping joint plywood panels, so I figured might as well do that too. That turned out to be a bit of a challange, but just took my time and was very pleased with the results.
I used 1/64th ply, each panel cut and fit individually.
The plane that I decided to model is 146/18 supposedly for Johann Jenzen.
A couple of reasons I went with it, first I love the Jasta 6 markings and second on looking at an original photo, it clearly shows an access hatch had been added just behind the cowling. This gave me the perfect place to hide my switches and charging jacks.
When finished, Lee will do the honors of test flying it and we plan on getting into a couple of team scale events, plus the Dawn Patrol in Dayton in Oct.

Thats my story and I'm stick'n to it.............

Del Johnson
Fokkers Forever

Dan_San_Abbott · 16 June 2005, 03:34 PM

Womenfly2:
I am now convinced the that the Fok.E.V streaking patterns will vary form wing to wing and will be individual as is the streaking on the Fok.DR.I. Some of the patterns would need much more than one brush load, i.e. brown, green and brown. I agree with Langdon that there is no specific repeatable pattern. The painters changed colors at will. However, I found the brown and violet and green and blue were matched at the leading and trailing edges.
If I can figure out how to put a drawing on the net, I will certainly do so.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Langdon · 16 June 2005, 07:34 PM

Deljon,

Yes you are correct, the plywood covering is overlapped span-wise starting in the centre of the wing with the sheets covering three rib bays each, the next outer sheet overlapping the inner one by approximately the width of the rib cap-strips, so if you look along the wing you only notice the steps in the covering on the far side of the wing (see photo below). The joints chordwise are made at the centreline, top and bottom, of the front spar and are butt joined. The nose covering ply sheets are not in line with the other cladding joints because of the sweepback of the leading edge and the diminishing size of the ribs (centre section are all the same profile for the nose).

Dan-San,

We agree on the repeatability.

What we need to achieve is the brushed out effect, we still don't see it on any of the samples above (either scale or full size), that you can see on the originals. What we need to work out is how often the colours are repeated (on the Fokker Factory photo it seems not often), I do not believe it is at every recharge of the paintbrush but I'm open to suggestions. There is a photo of E.V 156/18 which shows a pattern (almost lozenge) along the leading edge, this looks to me like the starting or finishing points of an angled brush stroke but in this case it seems they angle in the opposite direction to those in the factory photo.

Both the under and top surfaces of the wing have been painted with the strokes angled from bottom left to top right chordwise, with this in mind the colours can only be matched on either the leading or trailing edge, almost certainly leading, but not both.

Note leatherette (probably brown like the original from the Caproni D.VIII cockpit combing) padding around the wing cut-out.

Langdon

WinterHawke · 16 June 2005, 08:58 PM

Am going to try to post some pictures to show the wing skinning and the overall scheme (less the wing camo). As Del mentioned, he's doing E.V 146/18:

And as mentioned, he's done a neat job on the overlapping panels (which contrary to logic, layer out-to-in span-wise:

Now some specific issues.

The photo that Langdon posted above shows the goal, I think, very clearly, and we referred to it often last weekend (from the previous thread). Those long, straight, smooth strokes are very elusive to achieve! There's one spot on Del's plane that came a little close, but it's going to need to be richened up (it's the upper surface green, left side). The center section padding is going to come into play for Del, bye the bye, as that is where he's hiding the upper wing charging jack and switch.

The leading edge is very frustrating. I hadn't considered a sawtooth effect, in fact kinda voted against it when we got it (silly me!) - the photo of 146/18 in the Datafile wasn't too helpful, as it seemed to show almost a sharp straight line, but shadows come in to play here too much to tell.

The angle of the streak, top versus bottom, may be our biggest oops. In reading all that had preceeded this discussion, we interpreted that the upper matched the lower colors - we made the upper and lower surfaces mirror image, so that they match both leading and trailing edge. It did make me wonder about the right-handed brush stroke theory

- but in one of Dan-San's posts on the previous thread, he mentioned that there were both left and right slant patterns, so we assumed . . . .

Anyhoo

Updates from Del are going to be a bit sparse next week, as he and wife Mary are on a trip to Louisiana to visit with her family - and anyone who allows her husband into the kitchen to heat alcohol on the stove so they can mix brightly colored stains, and doesn't mind, needs to be catered to IMHO

But I think we'll have plenty to talk about 'til he gets back!

'til later,

Lee McDuffee

abufletcher · 16 June 2005, 10:34 PM

Are you absolutely certain that the ply was not finally covered with fabric (and dope)? Looking at the picture you posted, it say that what you see in the wing cut-out is fabric that has been stitched together.

It seems extremely odd that the streaked camo pattern would be applied directly to the plywood.

Just my uninformed wonderings.

BTW, I had never before noticed the control wires existing the side of the fuse. Are you going to replicate those as well?

Langdon · 16 June 2005, 11:31 PM

As Del mentioned, he's doing E.V 146/18:

I didn't know the designation for this aircraft, is there a photo that shows the 146/18 or has this information come from elsewhere? Bye the way he has done a wonderful job of my favourite E.V.

And as mentioned, he's done a neat job on the overlapping panels (which contrary to logic, layer out-to-in span-wise:

He has, I have spent a lot of time studying the cladding and this is what I have come up with.

The leading edge is very frustrating. I hadn't considered a sawtooth effect, in fact kinda voted against it when we got it (silly me!) - the photo of 146/18 in the Datafile wasn't too helpful, as it seemed to show almost a sharp straight line, but shadows come in to play here too much to tell.

I'm not sure of the saw tooth effect either, in fact it seems unlikely but I have often wondered about that photo, it's very hard to get a good E.V - D.VIII photo.

The angle of the streak, top versus bottom, may be our biggest oops. In reading all that had preceeded this discussion, we interpreted that the upper matched the lower colors - we made the upper and lower surfaces mirror image, so that they match both leading and trailing edge. It did make me wonder about the right-handed brush stroke theory

- but in one of Dan-San's posts on the previous thread, he mentioned that there were both left and right slant patterns, so we assumed . . . .

Possibly there are wings with different slanting of the paint work but I have not seen them, it seems to me that most wings have the darker colour (top and undersurface) starting close to the aileron cut-out and running to the tip, on other wings there also seems to be a dark strip near the centre section.

Langdon

deljon · 17 June 2005, 01:39 AM

Will try to post some photo's

deljon · 17 June 2005, 01:54 AM

I'll be darned, it worked.

Langdon.... the first photo is my documentation for the plane.
Windsock Datafile #25 on page 11 has a clearer photo (same shot)

Don.... the stiching you see is in the leather padding, also can be seen in photo 3. As you can see the pilots heads are quite close to the wing.
Yes, I will have the control cables, although non functional.
I could not figure out a way to properly hide the servo wires from the fuse. to the wing, so I installed a second receiver and batt. pack in the wing for the ailerons.

Del

Langdon · 17 June 2005, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deljon

I'll be darned, it worked.

Langdon.... the first photo is my documentation for the plane.
Windsock Datafile #25 on page 11 has a clearer photo (same shot)

Del

Del,

I have these photos, although I think your flying shot may be better than mine, but how do you know its 146/18 as I have not been able to read this on my copies, are yours better?

Langdon