Brown Fokker's??

[Quid Veritas]

Have been reading Jagdstaffel 356. This is a work published in the 1930's that has the names of the pilots and organizations altered. Some feel it is probably pretty authentic.

It makes reference to "brown" Fokkers (probably D-7's as this is set in 1918). Can anyone enlighten me as to what a "brown Fokker" might be? Does this refer to the fuselage or perhaps just to the tail?

Of course any historical references would be much appreciated.

mjc

[StephenLawson]

Camouflage or general colouring for camouflage?

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Quid Veritas:
The camouflage on Fok.DR.I Triplanes were olive brown. This is what he may have referred to. The time frame was early to mid 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Quid Veritas]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Quid Veritas:
The camouflage on Fok.DR.I Triplanes were olive brown. This is what he may have referred to. The time frame was early to mid 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Well you may be right about the aircraft being Dr.1's but . . . the book seems to make it pretty clear these were D-7's -- oh well.

I don't suppose you know of a source for this olive brown cammo? Is it a lozenge or something else? I haven't seen it. I thought most Dr.1's were painted green at the factory with a 3" brush? NO???

My definitive source :-)) -- Squdron pub #98 doesn't show an example of this.

Any help is much appreciated.

mjc

[Quid Veritas]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Quid Veritas:
The camouflage on Fok.DR.I Triplanes were olive brown. This is what he may have referred to. The time frame was early to mid 1918.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

The author also referrs to a Naval Staffel of "Blue Fokkers". I dunno if that helps clarify anything or just adds to the confusion.

mjc

[VonHelton]

Originally Posted by Quid Veritas

The author also referrs to a Naval Staffel of "Blue Fokkers". I dunno if that helps clarify anything or just adds to the confusion.

mjc

Dr1 streaky paint is in brown or green, based on info I've collected over the years.



If solid color, it would most likely be a pale blue. Most likely, it was Blue Lozenge, utilizing several different colors of blue, plus "off white".

[tkelly]

I've seen in combat reports with such references of brown or grey Fokkers. I think what is being described there is the general impression of a lozenge covered Fokker at a distance.
tim

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

First of all, let's remember that "Jagdstaffel 356" is a very highly fictionalized account of an unnamed German Jasta in the final eight months of the war or so. Such mostly-fictional books were commonly produced in the 1930's to produce 'air-mindedness' in patriotic German youth.

I think we're putting a little too much faith and importance in the author's off-hand color descriptions. M.E. Kähnert clearly based portions of the story on the real Bavarian Jasta 16, but most of the stories are completely fictional. The book gives the flavor of life in a Jasta, the relationships between various ranks and men of different backgrounds (Saxon, Bavarian, etc) but we shouldn't read too much into it. A lot of the incidents related are pretty far-fetched, IMHO. The character of the commander "Oberleutnant Olden" is loosely based on Jasta 16's last CO, Fritz Röth the balloon buster, and the two photos captioned as "Olden" actually do show Röth (however, the other photos used are a mish-mash of familiar photos from a variety of sources, including Kurt Wolff and Brauneck of Jasta 11 captioned as "pilots of Jagdstaffel 356"!). While the real Röth did commit suicide at the end of the war, he actually did it on New Year's 1918/1919, and not with a pistol shot to the head in front of his assembled Jasta after announcing the Kaiser's abdication (as Olden does in the book!).

Having said all that, it's quite clear that the "brown Fokkers" is a reference to a Staffel unit color painted on the D.VIIs of the fictional 356 as an identification marking. There are references (at the beginning of Chapter IV) to "the brown Staffel" , which is also a literary device to distinguish them from the "four blue German naval Fokkers" engaged with 8 Sopwiths. The author simply made this stuff up. Some army Jagdstaffeln did use brown as a unit marking (as late as August 1918, Jasta 20 was recorded as using brown fuselages with white control surfaces and horizontal stabilizer with dark outlines on the tail, and I've seen photos which seem to show these colors -in part- on Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa of the unit). However, the real Jasta 16 did not use brown as a unit color; its D.VIIs displayed blue noses with a white-black-white stripe wrapped around the tail section. Furthermore, we know that the naval Jastas (Marine Feld Jagdstaffeln) did not use much blue as a unit marking; they generally bore yellow noses and tails with differing black stripe markings on the elevators. Thus the "brown" and "blue" descriptions in the book are simply literary license.

As further evidence of the fictional aspect of the book, in the same encounter with 8 Sopwiths described in Chapter IV,One Sopwith flies above the fray, waiting his chance- its long streamers identify it as the a/c of "Captain Bishop, the English master scout"!! . 'Olden' and 'Bishop' fight an epic combat but neither is able to defeat the other...etc, etc.

That's my take on the whole thing.

Greg VanWyngarden

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Greg Van Wyngarden;
Well put!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[VonHelton]

Originally Posted by tkelly

I've seen in combat reports with such references of brown or grey Fokkers. I think what is being described there is the general impression of a lozenge covered Fokker at a distance.
tim

Green Fokker:

MvR

Grey Fokker:

Voss

Brown Fokker:

Baumer



Lozenge? Oh boy, have you opened a can of worms now!

ROFLMAO!