Fokker D.VII Streaking - One Color or Two?

[buzz1941]

To focus again, what we're discussing here is the possibility that more than one color was streaked over CDL on some early D.VIIs, perhaps as an experiment. Some photographs show variations in intensity of the streaking, which could be due to different colors. There also appears to be evidence of overlap between colors.

[JohnFitz]

Eric, Could two of the cans be black and white for the cross's? This would leave two colors for streaking.

[EricGoedkoop]

I don't think so, John. These are either middle or lower wings, so no crosses on the topside.

Does anyone have any good photos of the D.VIIs in question that can be posted here?

[JohnFitz]

Dan-San, In the case of Voss's machine is it wrong to think that it could have been completely painted sky blue and varnished which would have looked like turquoise and then streaked with olive brown? Turquoise can look like blue to some but green to others.

[EricGoedkoop]

I'm looking at Emil Thuy's 262/18 on page 64 of Cowin's German and Austrian Aviation of World War I. There's a white band around the fuse directly behind Thuy in the photo, which appears to cover the boundary between two colors of streaking. That forward of the band does indeed appear to be a different color than that behind - in fact the difference is quite pronounced.

[Barker]

Originally Posted by EricGoedkoop

Does anyone have any good photos of the D.VIIs in question that can be posted here?

Good news for Buzz, you gents, is Gabriel's D.VII may be the one best recorded in photographs.

Two Datafiles, MvR Flying Circus & Anthologies 1 & 2 (?) ea. display about a half dozen different photos of this a/c. Osprey's D.VII Aces shows some overlap plus a few more. This a/c went through various stages of decoration before settling to the final version we think of. The last a/c flown by Herr Gabriel was a BMW-engined VII and no photo exists, AFAIK.
Then Herman pulled his leash.

Need good photo refs for the a/c in question?
This may be your best choice.

Bad news?
If you're a modeler, you get to go chase it with a brush.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
This is a staged photo. The gent on the right is probably a Foreman. The four buckets are very easy to explain. (1) Olive brown, (2) Sky blue, (3) Insignia black, (4) Insignia white. There would have been a painter at each station, = 4 painters.
The original wing drawings call out the following colors and quantities of paints:
17. 13/12 kg. Emaillit (Clear dope) I coal on the fuselage, two coats on wings and tails.
19. 700 grams Blue lacquer.
20. 300 grams white lacquer.
21. 10 grams of anilin powder, (Olive brown).
22. 800 grams of covering lacquer, (mixed with anilin powder).
23. 100 grams of Insignia black.
In as much as 700 grams will only paint the under surface with one coat of blue it is NOT POSSIBLE to PAINT both sides of the Upper Wing. It would
have required 1500 grams of blue (700 + 800 grams)
The Fokker wing drawings are the original drawings of the three Fok.F.I aircraft, F.I 101/17 to F.I 103/17 and approximately 150 production Fok.DR.I aircraft, serial numbers, DR.I 104/17 to about DR.I 150/17.
For once and for all The Fok.F.I and early production WERE NOT PAINTED OVERALL BLUE WITH THE OLIVE BROWN PAINTED OVER THE SKY BLUE ON THE SIDE AND TOP SURFACES OF THE MACHINES.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Bookmaker]

Dan-San, I believe you are correct about the guy on the right. He must be a foreman because he's just standing there with his hands in his pockets.

Dan-San, back the the D VII issue, I went back and looked at the photos again of Gabriel's plane and there is at least one definate "band" of different shade that can be followed from the lower edge of the port side straight up and over the turtledeck diagonal forward then straight down the starboard side. This particular band seems to have definate edges and is about 4' wide. The side photo makes it appear that there are at least 2 other bands of different shade. How would this be done with one color?

I would post the photos, but my scanning equipment isn't that good, besides they are in a book covered by copywrite. I have them in the book I referred to post #1 of this thread.

By the check is in the mail for the E.V data.

Dale

[EricGoedkoop]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

This is a staged photo.

What makes you think that?

The four buckets are very easy to explain. (1) Olive brown, (2) Sky blue, (3) Insignia black, (4) Insignia white.

It looks like dark paint in each bucket - definitely in at least the three cans. The white container in front of them might be questionable, but it appears to have dark paint in it. The three behind all have dark paint run down the sides. These can't be white or sky blue. The underside man's bucket doesn't show any dark inside or out - this could be sky blue.

The gent on the right is probably a Foreman.

Originally Posted by Bookmaker

I believe you are correct about the guy on the right. He must be a foreman because he's just standing there with his hands in his pockets.

His left hand is in his pocket. I think his right hand is painting.

Furthermore, the crosses couldn't have been painted until all the underlying paint was completely dry - several hours at least. There's no reason for a painter to have black and white paint open at the same time as the camo color or colors.

Not to mention the fact that this wing wasn't going to get crosses on it's topside.

I'm not saying it's impossible that the photo is staged, but I'd like some evidence to suggest that.

[Jeff Brooks]

Originally Posted by RAGIII

I have a friend,Ira Campbell ,who worked sorting pictures from the Ferko Files at the University of Texas(Dallas). He sent an incredible copy of the originals of Lothar von Richthofen in 244/18. There is NO Doubt in my mind that the streaking is OD over CDL! I wish I had saved the pic. Perhaps I can have Ira send it again if he still has it on file. I don't know if it could be posted on this thread due to copyright, but I could forward it to those interested. It is incredibally sharp, and shows a lot of staining etc. on the lower fuselage. There are lighter areas of streaking and darker areas of streaking but the overall color under is CDL.
RAGIII

I would be VERY interested in those pictures!!! I am currently building a D VII and I want to paint it in Lothar's colors
Jeff