Tutschek's and Udet's Dr1

Hi friends,
Two different questions, but I decided to pack it into one thread.
1)What was just the color of the Tutschek's Dr1 on 15.3 1918? I've read at several sources that he was shot down in a green Dr1. But wasn't his pesonal DR1 at the time black-grey one ? And one subquestion : Does anybody know what were the circumstances of his death? I found nothing but he was just shot down. Nothing else. This would be very appreciated from me..., if there's any thread I missed please redirect me.

2)What was the paintings of Udet's Dr1 during his dogfight with Lt. Maasdorp in March 1918? He inherited later his black-white stripped Dr1 from Hans Kirchstein ( I think in May or June ). But how did his DR1 just in March look like?

Enjoy your replies gentlemen.
Honza.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Honza:
Hptm. Adolf Ritter von Tutschek was flying his Fok.DR.I 404/17 when he was shot down on 15 March 1918. Fok.DR.I 404/18 had black cross fields on the upper wing. The cross fields on the bottom of the lower wing were painted sky blue/turquoise. White borders, 50 mm wide surrounded borders on the fuselage, rudder, upper and lower wings. The fuselage and empennage were painted black from the forward edge of the fuselage cross fields and to include the rudder. The engine hood was painted white.
All remaining fabric areas on the upper and side surfaces were painted olive-brown in the Fokker streaked camouflage. The aluminum panels were painted solid olive-brown. All the under surfaces were painted sky blue and varnished, resulting in a turquoise color. The sky blue/turquoise extended up the sides of the fuselage 20 mm.
In the case of Ltn.Ernst Udet's Fok.DR.I when he joined Jasta 11, we don't have a complete photo of this machine. My best guess would be, the engine hood, all struts were painted red. The upper wing crossfields were over painted solid olive-brown on the top wing and fuselage leaving a 50mm wide white border. The rudder was white. The crosses may have been converted to the balken cross complying with the Idflieg order of 17 March 1918.
On the side of the fuselage Udet had chalked a box with the Lo!. The box was approximately 200 x 175 mm. It ispossible that with the cross change Udet may of had the LO! painted in white on both side of the fuselage. I remind you this is spectulation.
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Dan-San

Originally Posted by Honza

Does anybody know what were the circumstances of his death?

Depends on your source. In the book, Who Downed The Aces In WWI? (Franks), Herbert Redler of 24 Squadron RFC is given credit for his demise. It states that Tutschek brought his Triplane down intact within German territory after combat, and even waved to his fellow pilots when they flew over the landing site. German troops found him dead later that day.

Another account, found in Histoire De La Guerre Aérienne (Mortane), states that ace S/Lt. Omer Demeuldre of Spa 84 brought him down. This version has been discounted by some historians, as there is a discrepancy in the dates (a not too uncommon event with French records!). Some records even state that his victim on March 16 was a Rumpler!

When I have more time, I will give a more detailed account of the combat between JGII and 24 Sq., unless another forumite feels the urge to do so!

regards,

Darren

[Gregvan]

Hi All,

As to how von Tutschek was killed, there are several discrepancies and contradictory accounts (as Winged warrior stated) but it's pretty clear that Redler of No. 24 Sqdn (flying SE5a C5428) shot him down in a surprise attack. I think the mention of von Tutschek waving to troops after he "landed" is a mistaken impression. A combat report issued by No. 24 Sqn states, "Lt. Redler climbed to 16,000 ft in the sun and saw 3 triplanes and 3 Albatros scouts going West 1,000 ft below. He crossed to the East of them and dived on the highest triplane and put 40 rounds down to colliding point. The EA stalled to the right and went down in a spin. Lt. Redler then saw him spin for 2000 ft before having to retire on account of the remaining EA, and the triplane was obviously out of control."

Von Tutschek had taken off with the mixed group of tripes and Albatrosse around 1000 hrs German time. Redler was part of a five-plane patrol from No. 24 that had six different engagements with 15 or so German a/c during the course of their patrol. Redler's attack took the Germans entirely by surprise, and they didn't really realize anything had happened until they saw von Tutschek spiral down and make what they thought to be a good landing. Oblt. Blumenbach and Ltn. Hoffmann, both flying Dr.I's, flew down low and saw that German ground troops were on their way to von Tutschek and retrieved the body from the cockpit.

In later years, Hermann Becker of Jasta 12 (who was not flying that day, but was in Berlin) wrote that the only injury on von Tutschek's body was a very bad bruise on the temple. Becker believed that a spent bullet had dealt von Tutschek a glancing blow on the head, knocking him unconscious. IF the part about this bruise is true (and there's doubt about that, IMHO) then the landing must have been more of a severe crash that Blumenbach and Hoffmann thought, if the crash is what killed von T. We shall probably never know. Von Tutschek's loyal batman, Johann Maurer,wrote that on the 15th, "I accompanied the Hauptmann to the aerodrome. His machine was already set to go. I also helped him into his flying clothes, tying a handkerchief in the top buttonhole of his suit.Then he patted (his dog) Hektor. The two mechanics and I waved the Hauptmann off and he was gone..."

Futhermore, Alex Imrie writes that Vzfw. Bannert collected von Tutschek's body and noted that the white cloth handkerchief, used for wiping his goggles, was still knotted through the buttonhole and tucked under the right-hand strap of his shoudler harness. This would indicate that it had not been used and von Tutschek was truly surprised by Redler's attack.

I think the French claim that DeMeuldre shot him down can be discounted.

Greg VanWyngarden

Thanks a lot for exhausting answers nice gentlemen.
Honza

Thanks Greg for the run-down of events, I couldn't have said it better myself Now all we need is a definitive answer regarding Udet's machine during his fight with Maasdorp. Any takers?

Merry Christmas everyone,

Darren

Hi again,

I found this bit of information in the website article How I Shot Down 62 Planes by Ernst Udet, submitted by Alan:

"My opponent was an Australian, Lieut. C. R. Maasdorp of Squadron 47 R.F.C., and the date was sometime in March, 1918. The action took place in the morning above a road leading from Albert to Raume. Maasdorp was flying a Sopwith Camel and I had my Fokker DR-1 (149-17)."

Maybe the serial might help us identify the machine in photos

regards,

Darren

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Wingedwarrior:
Thank you very much for the serial number, I feel quite sure we can find a photo now with that serial number. Great!!
When I was a Soldier a long time ago, I had not thought of the appellation, "Warrior"! Warrior, really defines your role, "Warrior" you are a combat soldier, you are the point of the spear!!
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Hi Dan,

Coming from you that a real complement! I occasionally find a tid-bit or two of info that can be helpful.

I actually use the moniker because the majority of my heroes are/were 'warriors' and that list would include you and the service you provided to your country when it was needed. God bless you Sir.

regards,

Darren

[Dan_San_Abbott]

wingedwarrior:
Darren, I appreciate you including me on your warrior list. However, There was nothing in my service that would have put me in the warrior class.
Briefly, I was an airborne medic, and even briefer, Parachute Infantryman. After a few weeks in the hospital, I was transferred to the U.S.Army Air Force and served in the Air Transport Command. We reffered to it as "Alexander's Trucking Company". At the time, General Alexander was the C.O. Absolutely nothing unusual, very mundane.
Blue skies,
Dan-San