MvR's DVII

[Dan_San_Abbott]

redalb2253:
My take is, it would of been Fok.D.VIIF 231/18, with the BMWIIIa engine. It would have been painted blood (Venous) red all over like his triplanes, (Dr.I 477/17 and Dr.I 425/17) with the half white fin and white rudder. And (God willing) would have run his score to 100 in less than three weeks.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[NeilE]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

redalb2253:
My take is,.... ...And (God willing) would have run his score to 100 in less than three weeks.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

And how many lives lost would that have been Dan?

Does that matter?

What would the wider human impacts of the lives inevitably lost in the extra twenty victories you enthusiastically wish for?

Does that matter?

History is about people not reified statistics.

You should remember that.

Disappointed and Disgusted.

Neil

[CWatson]

Originally Posted by Neil_E

And how many lives lost would that have been Dan?

Does that matter?

What would the wider human impacts of the lives inevitably lost in the extra twenty victories you enthusiastically wish for?

Does that matter?

History is about people not reified statistics.

You should remember that.

Disappointed and Disgusted.

Neil

Their was no enthusiasm in Dan's post put there appears to be some sour grapes in this one. Still sore for looking like a jerk in the Fokker E.V. thread?

You should be disgusted with yourself resorting to this after failing to bait Dan San in the previous thread.

[NeilE]

Originally Posted by CWatson

Their was no enthusiasm in Dan's post put there appears to be some sour grapes in this one. Still sore for looking like a jerk in the Fokker E.V. thread?

You should be disgusted with yourself resorting to this after failing to bait Dan San in the previous thread.

And (God willing) would have run his score to 100 in less than three weeks.
Blue skies,


No enthusiasm?

Just read what he said.

Its got nothing to with Fokker E-V's.

Neil

Hello friends,
And I wish MvR would score 100 or even more too, and i dont think it has anything to do with my humanity.
Honza.

[Yeoman]

Personally I think 80 was 80 too many.

Lets keep it about the colours of his aeroplane eh ?
I would suggest red as well.

...And i forgot to say that i really do not like when somebody looks at MvR like at any killing machine!!! (i do not say Neil i mean you). He was, just like OTHER great fighting aviators or sodliers, incredibly brave man with huge sence for duty. And lets realise that noone here likes any warfare at all! If somebody wants to speak of murderers than he should speak about those men in the highest command sitting at their desks, who are responsible for the war...and even this is much more complicated....
Honza.

Originally Posted by Yeoman

Personally I think 80 was 80 too many.

Lets keep it about the colours of his aeroplane eh ?
I would suggest red as well.

...Yes, good idea I would guess all red too, with the white rudder.
Honza.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Neil_E:
If I per chance offended you sensibilities, Life is tough.
Darkening skies,
Dan-San

[NeilE]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Neil_E:
If I per chance offended you sensibilities, Life is tough.
Darkening skies,
Dan-San

Don't tell me Dan. Go tell the wives, mothers, fathers, and families of the aircrew that died after an encounter with your favourite ace.

Whilst I'm sure that in the unreal world of Manfred Von Richthofen hagiography, you would have liked a nice clean little hole in the engine crankcase, followed by a nice comfortable glide down behind German lines for them. But we all know the reality was usually different. Either plunging to death on the ground, still conscious after the machine malfunctioned after serious structural damage caused by the victor's bullets, or having the back of the your skull shot out, or inhaling fire and burning as your flaming aircraft plunged downwards, was more likely the reality.

You, as a leading World War One historian are most certainly aware of all this. Yet you still feel its okay to say:

"And (God willing) would have run his score to 100 in less than three weeks."

knowing full well the human implications of this sort of statement. I would have thought that given your special knowledge of the conditions prevalent in the air war that you would have been more sensitive and responsible than that. But obviously not.

Perhaps you are so caught up in the world of aviation statistics, colour schemes, and abstracted technical details, that you have forgotten just what all that stuff was intended to do. Technical advances of all kinds in the arms race in the air war had one overall purpose: to make a more efficient vehicle able to better remove, disable or kill the opposition in one way or another.

And the opposition are people. Every time an aviator was killed or maimed, German or Allied, it was a great loss - to his immediate family, his extended family and descendants, and to his comrades. Many never forget those losses. That's the reality of it.

And to wish for potentially twenty more (though why stop at twenty? After all, the war still had seven months to run - why not fifty Dan? Wouldn't that make St Manfred just that much greater for you and the disciples?) and its potential for even more loss of life, means you are thinking that those casualties are essentially meaningless, in the face of the greater imperative of MVR getting his hundred.

To me that is a sickening attitude to have, given its implications (which is why I signed myself "disappointed and disgusted"). I think it is our responsibility to educate all who are interested in both the colourful side of World War One aviation and abouts its dark side also.

And to those shallow enough to think this has anything to do with the events of a previous thread, it doesn't. I regard this as far more important, fundamental even, than the outcome of some essentially trivial debate about what colour a short-lived fighter's wings were. I would post a response like this, no matter who the poster was.

Regards

Neil

PS And for those who may have forgotten just what the end result of all those aces' activities often were, here's a reminder:



(Taken from Rosebud's Early Aviator.com site):

http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive1.htm#list