Need color info on Jasta 8 (?) E.V

melsharkskin · 11 May 2006, 03:00 PM

Forgive me if this is indeed OT. I'm still not sure if we're allowed to mention models on the colors subthread, but it's quite tough to avoid it.

I'm sure this is going to wind up as a one big speculative endeavor, but I'm rushing to finish a review of the 1/48 Eduard kit, and selected the yellow-nosed (?) machine with the snake running the length of the fuselage, obscuring the factory number, and have found no photos of this machine. So, it being a magazine review, I am restricted to OOB markings and parts and I'd like to make those as accurate as possible. The kit gives no indication of the color of the landing gear airfoil, which I assume to be overall Fokker green. However, no color is given for the top of it, and the bottom is shown in lower lozenge, which I seriously doubt as I do on all four of the color choices for this otherwise outstanding kit. (A word to those planning to build it: The interior framing is as close to scale as I've ever seen in a model, and with no discernable seams on my example. However, the framing is incredibly brittle and you will go insane if you don't approach it with tweezers and a surgeon's touch.)

On all four of the painting selections Eduard cops out and gives the option of streaked or a solid green wing. The wheels are also hedged, being shown as either yellow like the cowling (which is in turn hedged as possibly Fokker green) or in lozenge like the fuselage.

Before I ramble too much, can anyone shed light on the proper scheme for this machine, or who flew it? And is the white snake about to eat the little bunny rabbit, all depicted in white here, accurate? And, finally, is there a reference for this machine anywhere to be found quickly? I'm running out of time.
Many thanks,
TOM

Lyle · 12 May 2006, 07:32 AM

Melsharkskin,
Here is a thread with the one photo of this E.V known to exist--hope it is of use to you. I suspect the thinking is now that it wasn't attached to Jasta 8 but a Marinefeld E.V?
I think Eduard got it pretty good in their depiction of the colors!
Lyle
Fokker EV pic questions (for decals)

Dan_San_Abbott · 12 May 2006, 04:56 PM

Melsharkskin:
The Fok.E.V with the lateral stripes are simular to Jasta 8 markings, and a snake on the fuselage sides, however,I do not believe it belonged to
Jasta 8. In my studies I have never seen a reference to Fok.E.V machines ever issued to Jasta 8. I "think" it may have been one that was issued to Jasta 19 and the stripes are yellow?? The serial number would give us a possible Jasta, they were issued in batches with serial numbers in series.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

RAGIII · 12 May 2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

they were issued in batches with serial numbers in series.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

DSA, I was wondering about this. I noticed Jasta 6 seemed to have numbers in the 14x series continuing to 157/18. I have been studying the known serial numbers and 156/18 seems un accounted for? Would I be far off in placing this serial number on the lightning bolt marked EV in the Jasta 6 lineup?

RAGIII

Dan_San_Abbott · 13 May 2006, 03:13 PM

RAGIII:
Fok.E.V 156/18 was issued to 2 Marine Feld Jagdstaffel and was flown by Ltn.z.See Theo Osterkamp.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

melsharkskin · 15 May 2006, 06:28 PM

Thanks for the link, Lyle. I don't go that far back on the 'Drome. This sure was easier when I built the fine Koster vacuform/PE/WM D.VIII ten years ago and there were no easily available references other than a Datafile, and the only verified scheme was believed to be Jasta VI with black and white "petals" and tail stripes, and wings were solid Fokker Green, with lozenge everywhere else. When sources are scarce, nobody's wrong. Ah, but I was young then and not so dogmatic (and I did not work for a model magazine read by an international cast of rivet counters who will scorch me for the tiniest deviation from conventional wisdom).

But now that I've viewed the photo in the link, I believe the wheels on this E.V (with the serpent along the fuselage about to chow down on a rabbit) are in lozenge as per factory, and not the yellow option I was going to use, though they could have been painted later. Could someone else give it a close look and make sure I'm not mistaking the metal plate that covers part of the wheel for lozenge wheel covers? (And what is the function of this metal part over the wheel covering on the E.V/D.VIII, anyway? It is offered in PE parts as both pie shaped and square, listed as optional either way, and rests against the rim, extending about halfway to the hub.).

Also, note the wing against the wall in the same photo and the nose of the D.VII on the left. All in all and interesting and otherwise very clear photo. I'm still going with a yellow cowl, despite the dark color of the one in the photo because methinks it has all the hallmarks of orthochromatic film. Could someone versed in that film's effect on yellow comment as well?

These photos from WW I, the more I deal with them, the more I distrust my own eyes, and I think it's making me a little punchy. Certainly causes me AMS anxiety out the kazoo. Am I the only one affected this way?

TOM

silverback · 18 May 2006, 01:51 PM

The metal plate on the wheel cover was access to the valve stem. I don't think Fokker manufactured wheels, so parts purchased from various contractors could have differing configurations. The wheel covers in the photo are markedly different in tonal quality than the cowl, and appear to be quite matt. Since they are not vignetted but appear to be mottled to some extent, lozenge would not be a bad choice.
Note the engine access panel dangling between the landing gear legs. It appears to have the same tonal qualities as like-positioned portions of the cowl. Whatever you paint the cowl, this panel should be the same color (my "guess" would be Fokker green, since yellow in orthochromatic film usually looks much darker).
The wing has some subtle tonal variations which "could" be streaking. I'm pretty sure that the streaking exists; I'm just not sure that the various attempts to recreate it on this forum have quite gotten it right, yet, since the effect in photos is much less obvious than on, say, a Dr.I.
The axle wing looks to be a solid color, top and bottom, but it could also be streaked (oil contamination makes such a determination speculative at best).

Phil

melsharkskin · 19 May 2006, 04:04 AM

I know wing streaking has been beaten to death and then some here, but your comment on it being more subtle than we have proffered here has to be correct. Look at the closeup photo on the bottom of Page 111 of Osprey Aviation Elite Units 16, 'Richtofens Circus, Jagdgeschwader Nr 1. It literally looks as though the dark streaks are "washed" on with thin paint and follow the diagonal grain of very poor quality plywood. And the thickness of the paint varies, or else I'm looking at two colors. I place this here because it was mentioned above, but I assume as I said this photo has been discussed. If so, can someone tell me which thread?
And thanks to all of you who have been helping me on this thread. My editor is leaning on me to finish this Eduard D.VIII for the magazine and I don't build that fast, so it's going to get letters about my choices of color. Such is modeling journalism. Oops, OT again.
TOM

Dan_San_Abbott · 19 May 2006, 08:49 AM

Silverback:
All aircraft wheels were made by the wheel manufacturers to a definitive dimension specification which covers all wheel sizes from, Type I, 710mm tire size to type IV, 965mm tire size. There were 11 approved wheel manufacturers and 4 rim manufacturers.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

JohnFitz · 21 May 2006, 04:19 AM

Hi Guys, I came across this photo in a publication called Hobby Helpers which was published 1960 and is a compilation of "The Sixty Best airplanes Of World War One", by a fellow named Peter M. Bowers. Since the intended purpose of this book is to help build models I don't think I am doing anything wrong by posting the photo here. I have not seen this photo anywhere else either. Oh, the ser.# is 553 A/18.