True color of MVR Fokker Dr1 425/17

[CWatson]

Originally Posted by RED BARON RETURNS

Well how does this look for a dark red.It's the #1204 Testors.
It seems lighter outside when the light hits the Fokker but inside it looks like a dark cherry.
Thanks for the info to Dan-san,Langdon and CWatson.
JP

I like the red and know it is darker in real life but I am happy with it on mine. I see you do not have the rudder on. Safe to assume since the rudder is not on it yet it will be white and have the late style crosses? I went with the all red early crosses on mine.

CWatson

[RED BARON RETURNS]

Originally Posted by CWatson

I like the red and know it is darker in real life but I am happy with it on mine. I see you do not have the rudder on. Safe to assume since the rudder is not on it yet it will be white and have the late style crosses? I went with the all red early crosses on mine.

CWatson

Your right i'm going with the white rudder and late crosses.I hope these decals are good.I have never done a revell Fokker before.I'm going to have to some custom work to it a little.. like the gun area it would be nice if they made decals for the 1/28 Fokker Dr1.I have only seen 1/32 decal sets and they will be too small.You Need to check out Russell Smith "Feeding off a Legend" print it's really a cool print.
JP

[Ross_Moorhouse]

Originally Posted by RED BARON RETURNS

Your right i'm going with the white rudder and late crosses.I hope these decals are good.I have never done a revell Fokker before.I'm going to have to some custom work to it a little.. like the gun area it would be nice if they made decals for the 1/28 Fokker Dr1.I have only seen 1/32 decal sets and they will be too small.You Need to check out Russell Smith "Feeding off a Legend" print it's really a cool print.
JP

http://www.amug.org/~copperst/details_28.html for 1/28th Decals from CopperState.

[CWatson]

Originally Posted by RED BARON RETURNS

Your right i'm going with the white rudder and late crosses.I hope these decals are good.I have never done a revell Fokker before.I'm going to have to some custom work to it a little.. like the gun area it would be nice if they made decals for the 1/28 Fokker Dr1.I have only seen 1/32 decal sets and they will be too small.You Need to check out Russell Smith "Feeding off a Legend" print it's really a cool print.
JP

I built a 1/28 Dr.1 awhile back for my nephew, it was a late 90's production and the decals went on without a hitch.

I noticed Americal http://members.cox.net/tbittners/AG/index.html has some 1/28 Dr.1 decals listed.

CWatson

[Langdon]

I think originally the red would have been quite bright but at some stage - and I believe this was during a successive painting - the paint picked up soot from the engine, thus darkening the colour somewhat.

Langdon

[karrart]

Originally Posted by Langdon

I think originally the red would have been quite bright but at some stage - and I believe this was during a successive painting - the paint picked up soot from the engine, thus darkening the colour somewhat.

Langdon

Yeah- if I remember rightly, Toelle's analysis was that the red pigment was vermillion. Vermillion ain't just a color name, it's a particular pigment, and being a mercury compound, the real thing is rather hard to come by these days. It's a pretty bright color and depending on the light can be an eye-gouging red with a subtle orangy-pink glow. I still have a tube of the real stuff from decades ago...somewhere around here.
Also, I remember that it was indeed some rough soot embedded on top of the red that gave the sample its overall dark look. I believe he surmised that this sample came from a part of the airplane that was particulaly exposed to engine gunk.
Robert Karr
www.karrart.com

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
I dissagree with Alan's supposition that it was engine exhaust soot. That might explain the color if the fabric sample came off the fuselage and tailplane. Also why isn't on the rudder? You would not have engine exhaust on the upper wing crossfield. The Color of the red on the upper wing fabric in the Imperial War Museum Collection (1972) matched the color of the piece of 425 fabric I had, DARK RED.
But most of all the fabric alongside the crossfields on the fuselage, and upper wing are dull dark red, about Methuen 10F8. I don't think it is soot, I think is is carbon black added to the vermillion to darken the red and was poorly mixed. One eye witness report of the color of MvR's 425 at Bertangle, stated it was maroon, that is hardly bright red. However, that is closer to the fabric samples I have seen. Everyone keeps looking at the bright red crossfield as saying it was bright red. The red oil based paint that was painted over the flat white oil based paint has bled into each other and has lightened the cross field over time. You will not find photograph of a cross field on 425 that is a light grey tone. In all the photos of MvR's Fok.DR.I (either 477 or 425) where the crossfields and the surrounding fabric are the same dark grey tone, don't take my word for it go look for yourself. What is painted red on the 477/425 was all the same tone of grey, not light in the fuselage cross fields and dark every where else.
The whole machine was dark red including the cross fields.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Tom L.]

Having never seen any photos of the 425/17 fabric samples, I'm surprised at just how sloppy the cross overpainting is.

I'm sure that in the second photo posted in this thread, some of that "slop" could well be bleed-through of colors over the years, but the cross in the first photo has definite corners of the cross patee still showing.

Never seen that represented in a decal...

[Langdon]

Dan-San,

These were Allan's comments, I have not studied the fabric in that detail and you may well be correct with your assessment. Allan did mention that the carbon or soot was in relatively coarse particles when compared with the very fine particles of the mercuric sulfide, so coarse in-fact that it roughened the surface, leading him to believe that it was soot rather than a darkener. I think he also mentioned that the fabric was noticeably darker toward the bottom of the fuselage.

I'm not sure what you are referring to about the rudder?

I believe you are correct when you state that the aircraft would have looked an even shade after it was freshly painted.

I think the interesting thing about this discovery of Allan's is that it seems the aircraft was personalised for MvR at the factory and therefore had a long association with him even though he was not successful on it until near the end.

Langdon

[Jim Bruton]

Langdon,

My guess is that Dan-San meant that the rudder, being downwind from the engine, should also show evidence of soot- perhaps the white would easily show evidence via color darkening and closer analysis would reveal actual soot particles.

Jim Bruton