True color of MVR Fokker Dr1 425/17

StephenLawson · 26 July 2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Watts

Hi all,

I learned a great deal from this thread. One thing I discovered for myself was that there are three images of the all red Dr.I at Lechelle, and not two. This will be good to know when examining photos or negatives at UTD.

I'm sure everyone will settle down and have taken something away from this discussion of value.

It's not over yet. To quote one of my favorite lines, "The race goes on Juda!", which was preceded by a really good one of, "Look for them in the valley of the lepers...if you can still recognize them!"

Best,
Dave W.

I have several from that same bit of celluliod. Here is my take from another film "...Unconfirmed by Armee means unconfirmed!..."

Taz · 26 July 2006, 07:23 AM

Like Dave, I had a rousing good time learning from this thread. Some great new images came out (Hemer's Dr.I, the extra red Lechelle Dr.I) and lots of people got involved who would have normally stayed on the sidelines. Have to find something else fun to discuss.

Peter Grosz thinks the Fokker Triplane prototype Alex Imrie called the V.4 modified (WN 1661 in Alex' opinion) is actually F.I 101/17, WN 1697 before painting. This aircraft is the Triplane with interplane struts, horn balances on both ailerons and elevator, and wings of stepped wingspan bottom to top. Is this worth a thread to discuss?

Taz
Terry Phillips

CWatson · 26 July 2006, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Watts

One thing I discovered for myself was that there are three images of the all red Dr.I at Lechelle, and not two. This will be good to know when examining photos or negatives at UTD.

There is actually four if you count the close up of the cockpit. Since you mentioned UTD, you may discover more interesting photos of this and other aircraft while there. Do you have a actual trip there planned?

Thank's,
CWatson

Balloon_Buster · 26 July 2006, 01:53 PM

The only thing I've learned is that nobody knows anything for sure. When I read MvR had an "all red" triplane, that's what I thought, and never thought more about it. OH WELL!

Dave_Watts · 26 July 2006, 09:21 PM

Hi all,

CWatson,

Yes, you're right about the 4th photo, and if you think about it there may even be a 5th if we consider the far off view of a day or so later with the all red Dr.I off in the distance in front of the hanger where we can only see the top wing, (this photo may still be a point of debate).

As to a visit to UTD, Greg VanWyngarden just wrote me that he had just spent two intense days at UTD. He stated he was there for other information but tried to find our suspect photos with no luck on any of them! Nor could he find the print of the "521/17" DrI thought to be "477/17". This is frightening as I know of other items that have disappeared from UTD. For now I'll assume they are in another file...cross your fingers!

Best,
Dave W.

CWatson · 26 July 2006, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_Watts

As to a visit to UTD, Greg VanWyngarden just wrote me that he had just spent two intense days at UTD. He stated he was there for other information but tried to find our suspect photos with no luck on any of them! Nor could he find the print of the "521/17" DrI thought to be "477/17". This is frightening as I know of other items that have disappeared from UTD. For now I'll assume they are in another file...cross your fingers!

I hope they are only in another file, so much history has already been lost forever. I hope one day to make it to UTD myself, I think viewing the file/folder #5 of box517 listed as Notenius and War Diary would be worth the trip itself.

CWatson

Dan_San_Abbott · 28 July 2006, 11:16 AM

Gentlemen:
I shall not respond to any questions directed to me on the thread.
Dan-San

RAGIII · 30 July 2006, 09:58 PM

I also hope the pictures are just misplaced! It would certainly be a shame to lose these originals or first generation copies!! That being said I hope no one is going to take the stance that since the photos can't be found, anything related to Ferkos studies are not valid? Finally, although everyone mutually agreed that the thread was turning into a dead end, I wonder why Dan has made his statement reference answering no questions from this thread? This thread has inspired me to think about building a Red Triplane as one of my next builds. It really won't matter if it is 477/17 in some peoples opinion, or 425/17 in others, it will still look the same

RAGIII

Gregvan · 30 July 2006, 10:42 PM

Hi,

I never said the respective photos are lost or stolen, I simply said I couldn't find them. There are the photo files of each Jasta that (I presume) Bill Puglisi collected and organized, and that Ferko expanded when he bought the Ferko collection. I have gone through these files several times (1000's of photos) and I don't think I recall seeing these photos in those files, ever. There is also a big album of MvR related photos that I looked through for the first time on my recent visit. While I found several heretofore "new" photos that were in Ferko's book (which I had not seen anywhere else in the collection) I did not find the requested photos of 425/17 (or 477/17, depending on who you believe) nor the disputed photo of 521/17 or 477/17. I have also looked for several other photos which I think "should" be there in the collection somewhere, but I've been unable to find.

That DOES NOT mean that these photos aren't there, somewhere. I know that Pete Grosz has fairly good copies (of the triplane shots), as does Paul Leaman and Peter Kilduff. I really don't know if Ed Ferko ever had the "original prints" of these or not. There is still a lot of the collection that the undermanned staff at the HAC/Special Collections Department is slowly working their way through and cataloguing. The aforementioned photos may be lurking unrecorded in some file or album. There are over 160 albums alone in the collection. I'm sorry, but trying to find the original prints of three triplane photos was not my purpose in making a rather expensive trip to Dallas, and wading through many albums and files.

Yes, in the past there were some items which disappeared from the collection - this is very sad. However, their procedures and precautions are much more secure and restricted now, to the point where it is time-consuming and a bit difficult to look at as much material as you want. They have a safe for their most valuable items (such as, I believe, some signed Sankes of MvR and others - perhaps the triplane photos are in there).

So don't lose hope. I'm rather burnt out on this particular thread/topic myself right now, as I have other irons in the fire.

Greg VanWyngarden

JohnFitz · 31 July 2006, 05:47 AM

Greg, How does one go about getting permission to look through these files/archives? Do I need some kind of special credentials or would I simply make an appointment?