nieuport 11 color

[Ryan]

Hello all, I am about to embark on Eduard's nieuport 11, but i admit I do not know alot about French paint schemes. Were the two toned camouflaged 11's painted over both silver dope and CDL or just the CDL? Was there a certain time date or serial perhaps where the silver replaced the CDL? Thanks in advance

Ryan

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Hello all, I am about to embark on Eduard's nieuport 11, but i admit I do not know alot about French paint schemes.

Were the two toned camouflaged 11's painted over both silver dope and CDL or just the CDL?

Was there a certain time date or serial perhaps where the silver replaced the CDL?

Thanks in advance Ryan

French Nieuport 11 types left the factory in CDL. They remained that way unless painted at the front in rough applied camouflage.

The two toned Nieuports were the Nieu.16 and some early 17 types.

Only the Nieuport 17 -27 types had the silver dope not the Nieu. 11 or 16 types.

Some type 24-27 had French 4 - 5 colour camouflage.

[Ryan]

Thanks Stephen, thats what I was looking for!

Ryan

[greenknight]

Ryan,

If you've not found this one already, you should find something of interest at the website called "The Nieuport Pages". Main page is here:
http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/nieuport.html

I'm no Nieuport expert, but some of the pages at this site seem to address your queries about the Nie. 11 pretty well:

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/Nieuport_id.html

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_11.html

I hope this helps.

[StephenLawson]

Another consideration is that Nieuport type 11 and 16 were manufactured side by side. I confess that there may not have been a "clean" break in the CDL and the two toned camouflage with the types.

Maybe one of the Belgian contingency could talk to us about "Vampire." Unidentified camouflaged Belgian Nieuport 11 with personal markings. The same pilot also flew a Nieuport 17, also marked with "Vampire."

Then as greenknight rightly pointed out the camouflaged Nieuport 11 captured by the Germans almost intact. This machine was particularly well photographed as both top and bottom were photographed while on its nose, on a truck, and left side while sitting on the ground. This machine had been flown by Capitaine le Comte JLV de Plandes Sièyes from Escadrille N.26 and was downed near Douai on July 3, 1916.

Evidently in France the Nieu 11 were even manufactured right up through the beginning of the Nieuport 17 production. But the Nieuport 11 never carried the silver dope finish. These last examples of the Nieuport 11 were destined for Italy and Russian service in CDL.

[Scimitar]

Hi Stephen,

I have only a few doc on the "Vampire", and I'm not sure of the exactitude... Perheaps Edmond Thieffry and Osterkamp will help better than me.

Here is what I can say:

The Nieuport 11 "Vampire" (serial unknown) could have been piloted by lieutenant A. de Neef of the 1st Escadrille.
The blue Rider decal sheet BR513 shows the a/c as painted in Drab khaki. I'm not sure for that; the two tone camo sounds more correct.
Lower surfaces are CDL painted; and cowl is natural metal.

Cheers,

Daniel.

[Ryan]

I am actually building the N.26 1153 version that is supplied in the in Eduard box. The Nieuport pages list a light blue around the leading edge of the flying surfaces in conjunction with the CDL on the bottom. Is this on all aircraft or was the light blue sometinmes a continuation od the CDL? Also, I did find one picture of 1153 that was posted on the 'drome a while back. Where might I find the others? Are they in a data file? Thanks again,

Ryan

[StephenLawson]

Here is a bit of fun from Greg VanWyngarden concerning a lt. blue Nieuport 11 of Sou Lt.George Guynemer

Hi,
The model is obviously based on the photos and color profile in the superb book 'Guynemer - Les Avions d'un As' by Bernard Klaeylé and Philippe Osché, with the participation of Christophe Cony (Avions Magazine, Editions Lela Presse 1998, ISBN 2-9509485-6-1). These two authors are acknowledged and highly respected experts in the field of French WWI aviation, with Klaeylé being perhaps THE ultimate authority on French Nieuports (just ask Alan Toelle).

On page 116 they show a color profile of this Nieuport 11 N 836 "Vieux Charles II" from March 1916, in an overall light blue-gray color, and I wouldn't doubt their deductions. The profile is captioned "Avion entièremont bleu horizon" and the English version of the caption says "Overall blue-grey doped aeroplane." The engine cowling is shown as unpainted metal with "Le Vieux Charles" painted on the front surface in blue letters.

On page 104, the description of this aircraft says, in part: "L'avion est neuf et l'entoilage opaque indiquerait qu'il est recouvert d'un enduit coloré, vraisemblablement gris bleu clair". I'll let one of our French forumites translate that, better than give it a try myself - but the meaning is clear.

The aircraft does indeed seem to have an opaque appearance in the photos. Interestingly, another Nieuport 16 of Escadrille N62 on page 42 is camouflaged, and the caption says "Colors are thought to be green and brown sprayed over the former blue shade."

These authors really put a tremendous amount of painstaking research into their conclusions, and I-for one- am not prepared to dismiss their statements readily...Greg"

Greg later adds.."Here's a bit more evidence from the highly acclaimed and respected book "René Dorme et Joseph Guiget, La Guerre aérienne de deux As" by Marc Chassard, Editions Aux Arts, page 167: "Nieuports type X, XI, XVI, and XVII, according to the time, have worn various colors. Initially clear-doped for types X and the first types XI built in 1915, the first coloured coatings appear at the end of the year. Some types XI produced at that time are described as being entirely light blue."

A photo of Guynemer's Nieuport XI No 836 on the same page is captioned: "This close-up view of Guynemer's XI N 836 shows that the aeroplane is covered with clear(claire - light) paint, scaled in places; an example of light blue Nieuports."

[rabu]

Steven, and everyone, thaks for the valuable info. I'll use it in creating the Nieuport skins for Over Flanders Fields that I'm working on for Phase II.