Q: On Udet's DR-1 ...

womenfly2 · 2 February 2007, 11:23 AM

... in reading what berman stated is very interesting ... performance vs ego! ... what a dilemma?

Consider the colors .... white or light blue over Olive green. Were the dopes bleed proof? Or was the varnish top coat effective enough to prevent this?
If not, would not the white darken as the olive green blended with it?

I have painted white dope over a darker color, does not stay white very long!

Just curious.

WF2

Taz · 2 February 2007, 12:49 PM

WF2- I think one thing to remember is that the Dr.Is for Jasta 4 were a short-term fix until they were reequipped with D.VIIs. Jasta 4 only used them until Jasta 6 and Jasta 10 had received their D.VII complement and Udet as Jastafuhrer would be receiving the first D.VII available to Jasta 4.

Admittedly, Jasta 5 also received interim Dr.Is and they overpainted them in Jasta 5 colors, so that takes some of the wind out of that sail. That was just the fuselages and tail surfaces, though, and not both sides of the top wing. I just think nobody was going to bother repainting all the black stripes red and all the white stripes light blue on an interim aircraft. Does not pass the sanity test. At which point someone will ask how I know they were the same aircraft? Look at the photos I sent you and make up your own mind. The aircraft definitely came from Jasta 6 since it has Jasta 6's access panels.

And, yes, a relatively light coat of white paint will look dingy over olive streaking. The stripes on the wing and aileron bottom are much brighter than on the fuselage, as are those on the light blue interplane struts. The same goes for the dark stripes.

You now understand both sides of the argument and can make up your own mind and paint away to your heart's content.

Du Doch Nicht arguments are similar and with the same combatants. No intention of repeating those since they are all well recorded in past threads.

Taz
Terry Phillips

RAGIII · 2 February 2007, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punish

Hi Womenfly2, I just stumbled onto this site, it's a beautiful forum whoever made it. Props to you all.

Womenfly2 here is some models of Udet's aircraft and his Triplane is also there. Hope this helps you with colors?

http://wwi.priswell.com/german/fokker/index.htm#fokdr

Nice Models. but pictures show Kirschteins aircraft was totally diferent. I think the paint scheme was based on a profile in Squadrons in Action book on the DR1. As for the Udet bird it is a stretch of imagination based on the incorrect Kirschtein scheme! JMHO,
RAGIII

Punish · 2 February 2007, 08:30 PM

RAG you know how them there modelers are sometimes.

Womenfly2 you are most welcome.

womenfly2 · 12 February 2007, 05:12 AM

.. here is a multi-view drawing with color added by Mr. Abbott. The drawing was sent to me by Dan-San Abbott with permission to post. Through his historical research, this is what Mr. Abbott has concluded to be the paint scheme and colors of Udet's DR.1 "Optical Illusion." in Jasta-4 colors.

Udet%20DR[1].1%20Abbott-1c.jpg

For an enlarged view: Udet%20DR[1].1%20Abbott-1a.pdf

Thank you Mr. Abbott for sharing your years of knowledge and research with us here on this forum.

Comments? ... please keep it civil and opened minded, thank you.

papermache · 12 February 2007, 07:14 AM

WF2 et al,

For all the talk about Udet's ego, let's not forget that he was a fighter pilot and thus knew the importance of an aircraft that performed well in combat. I'm sure Udet knew that a heavy aircraft performs less well than a lighter version of the same aircraft. Thus, he would have been aware of the adverse affect a third finish would have on this airplane. Knowing also that this was an interim aircraft that he would use for only a short period, it doesn't stand to reason that he would potentially risk his life just to satisfy a bit of ego. He probably just painted the LO! and redid the crosses. Ego was satisfied with "DDN".

papermache

Bookmaker · 12 February 2007, 09:33 AM

Very interesting concepts. What still amazes me, is that no one of the time period made a note, a comment, battle report, or other written reference of these many colorful aircraft of WW I. Yes, I know there are some, but there seem to be so many that there is nothing definitive in writing from the period.

In this day and age of color photos, news media coverage and the general proliferation of information to the point of over kill, such difficulty finding a description of machines that were seen, loved and feared by so many truely reflects a changing of attitiudes. Sharing non essential information was obviously not nearly as important at that time.

My hat is off to all those who do so much research in trying to determine what these historical machines really looked like. Keep up the good work.

Dale

Southside Bucky · 12 February 2007, 10:10 AM

Hi there.

Just thought I'd post the picture that Dan-San is basing his depiction of 586/17 on, with what I consider to be a few salient points:

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Don't suppose it'll change anyone's mind either way though!

Regards.

Bucky.

womenfly2 · 12 February 2007, 10:34 AM

... some really good points Southside.

Taz · 12 February 2007, 01:28 PM

WF2- You should be aware I am the one who commissioned Dan-San's color portrait of 586/17. The original is 1/36th scale and is really beautiful and still hangs on my wall. That being said, I now think the colors are completely wrong.

Dale-

Richard Wenzl in his book Richthofen Flieger spells out exactly the black and white stripes of Kirchstein's aircraft and the fact the optical illusion they created resulted in him believing he was hit only in the left wing rather than in the fuselage during combat. All the soft parts that leaked liquids were in the fuselage and wing hits usually just created an easily patched hole, so that was a good thing.

Taz
Terry Phillips