September 23, 1917 Voss vs 56 sqd.

Tim West · 22 April 2007, 02:38 PM

Hi all, not sure where to post this but ultimately this is the stuff I need to know.

Recently I have been doing some preliminary research for what might be a really cool project. What I need actually is help with a few things but I will start with September 23, 1917 Voss vs 56 sqd.

I guess first, is the following accurate?

"McCudden was flying B4863. Other planes probably involved were: A4563 (Cronyn), B1(Mayberry), B506 (Hoidge), B525(Rhys Davids), B2(Bowman), A8944(Muspratt).

coloring (RFC standard), with a white band on each about the fuselage beneath the rudder's leading edge. Each has a identification letter: "I" for Rhys Davids, "V" for Mayberry, and "G" for McCudden."

Next, would it be safe to say that Gustav Bellens Pfalz DIII was marked similarly to that of Friedrich Rudenberg?

And how about this?

"At this time, another Hun machine joins the fight. Mayberry, a member of C flight, zoom climbs up above the fight in order to make a diving attack on Voss. He noses over into a dive and lines up on his target but soon notices a red-nosed Albatros on his tail. Mayberry performs a climbing turn to shake the Albatros…a critical mistake. Now the Albatros and Voss latch onto his tail. "

Was this the red albatros of MvR? If so who might some of the other Albatros pilots been?

Lastly do we all agree that FI 103/17 was olive over cdl? J/k.

Please I don't want to debate some of the topics that might arise, I just need some basic info, that appears to be the common consensus here at the drome.

Thank you all for your time.

RAGIII · 22 April 2007, 02:49 PM

Tim, just a quick reply before further research. NO white bands on the fuselage, these did not appear untill later ! If any squadron marking it would have been a small dumbell, perhaps in flight color, maybe in white. Dr. Merrill did some great research for his 56 squadron decals, and lots of info in

High in the Empty Blue. More later if necessary,
RAGIII

RAGIII · 22 April 2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim West

Lastly do we all agree that FI 103/17 was olive over cdl? J/k.

Please I don't want to debate some of the topics that might arise, I just need some basic info, that appears to be the common consensus here at the drome.

Thank you all for your time.

Tim, Funny how things change! I am sure you recall my mention of H.J. Nowarras comment about "Gray" fabric used on the DR1. Most others disagreed stating that CDL was Bleached linen, turned yellowish by Lacquer coat. Now it seems that Taz is promoting the F1s as being Doped an Earth gray on the uppers? Seems pretty close to Nowarras old theory :-)
RAGIII

tcrean7828 · 22 April 2007, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim West

Hi all, not sure where to post this but ultimately this is the stuff I need to know.

Recently I have been doing some preliminary research for what might be a really cool project. What I need actually is help with a few things but I will start with September 23, 1917 Voss vs 56 sqd.

I guess first, is the following accurate?

"McCudden was flying B4863. Other planes probably involved were: A4563 (Cronyn), B1(Mayberry), B506 (Hoidge), B525(Rhys Davids), B2(Bowman), A8944(Muspratt).

coloring (RFC standard), with a white band on each about the fuselage beneath the rudder's leading edge. Each has a identification letter: "I" for Rhys Davids, "V" for Mayberry, and "G" for McCudden."

Next, would it be safe to say that Gustav Bellens Pfalz DIII was marked similarly to that of Friedrich Rudenberg?

And how about this?

"At this time, another Hun machine joins the fight. Mayberry, a member of C flight, zoom climbs up above the fight in order to make a diving attack on Voss. He noses over into a dive and lines up on his target but soon notices a red-nosed Albatros on his tail. Mayberry performs a climbing turn to shake the Albatros…a critical mistake. Now the Albatros and Voss latch onto his tail. "

Was this the red albatros of MvR? If so who might some of the other Albatros pilots been?

Lastly do we all agree that FI 103/17 was olive over cdl? J/k.

Please I don't want to debate some of the topics that might arise, I just need some basic info, that appears to be the common consensus here at the drome.

Thank you all for your time.

Mate,

For the info you are looking for check out my thread: Voss ran out of bullets. Or you can drop me an E-mail via PM. I will Pm you with info.

cul

trean7828

tom

Tim West · 23 April 2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RAGIII

Tim, just a quick reply before further research. NO white bands on the fuselage, these did not appear untill later ! If any squadron marking it would have been a small dumbell, perhaps in flight color, maybe in white. Dr. Merrill did some great research for his 56 squadron decals, and lots of info in

High in the Empty Blue. More later if necessary,
RAGIII

Hi Rag,

Unfortunately, at 90-300 bucks, I don't think I will be ordering The Empty Blue at this time. Sounds like its a great source. I have little info on Rfc/Raf, well not yet anyhow. I have noticed in the last few days how much of a Central Powers slant my resources have. I will have to look around for a used copy. So if the bands are later, then would it be just as safe to not have any markings as to have the dumbbells? Also would they have likely carried the identification letters on the top wing...on the right?

Yeh, I remember the discussions. Really at the time, to me made more sense then some of the other speculation and ideas. Is there a current thread I should check out? I may be revisiting FI 103/17 sooner than I had imagined.

tcrean7828,

I just saw you mailed me? I will read it in a sec. I skimmed you thread the other day, but I will again. Sometimes when reading a lot of the same info fro many sources, it all starts to run together.

Let me check out your mail.

Thanks guys

Tim West · 23 April 2007, 06:25 PM

Oh and....

Who were flying the Albs? Jasta 11? Mvr,

LvR, . I have read it was a all red Albatross and or it was a red nosed Albatross that took part with Voss.

Maybe August Schonebeck or Karl Amenroder? Hmm , would MvR even of been flying a Alb D.III this time?

Anyhow, Again thanks =)

Taz · 23 April 2007, 06:41 PM

Tim, RAGIII- Whoa, whoa. I think F.I 103/17 was streaked olive over CDL. The question was how erdgrau was the fabric before doping? Do not know. I was just quoting a book in the post to give everybody a look at what was done 44 years ago in the way of color. The basis for the recent postulated light blue overcoat is pure speculation and one piece of evidence, Dr.I 588/17 clearly has returned light blue paint visible in photos at Jasta 14.

I try to present all the evidence and let people make up their minds what they believe. Just like we know Voss' cowl and wheel covers were overpainted, but not positively what color.

Taz

RAGIII · 23 April 2007, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Tim, RAGIII- Whoa, whoa. I think F.I 103/17 was streaked olive over CDL. The question was how erdgrau was the fabric before doping? Do not know. I was just quoting a book in the post to give everybody a look at what was done 44 years ago in the way of color. The basis for the recent postulated light blue overcoat is pure speculation and one piece of evidence, Dr.I 588/17 clearly has returned light blue paint visible in photos at Jasta 14.

I try to present all the evidence and let people make up their minds what they believe. Just like we know Voss' cowl and wheel covers were overpainted, but not positively what color.

Taz

Terry, thanks for the clarification! Still,a more grey fabric would tend to answer a lot of questions :-)
RAGIII

dpolglaze · 23 April 2007, 09:23 PM

Tim,

If you don't mind pink highlighting on nearly every page (which you probably do, but maybe not), here's a copy of

HITEB shipped to the US for under $50:

http://www.biblio.com/books/118833734.html

Dan

Tim West · 23 April 2007, 10:18 PM

Hi Terry,

I have missed recent post on the subject, I didn't mean to infer anything. You have in the past helped me out a lot with the Dr.I.

The earth gray does explain a lot and why add another step or color if the linen had it to start with.

Heh, the cowl and wheel choices are still olive and yellow right?

588 appears to be a few different planes, depending on what book I look at or was it 198...anyhow all appear to have a return on the longeron or tailplane. Now I am confused, see you guys did it to me again. I am looking up stuff unrelated to what I was originally looking for.