Captured Nieuport 11 in Imperial German service

[Gregvan]

Here's another view of the same Nieuport. Sorry it's not a better photo.



Greg

[Gregvan]

Hi,

Here's a remarkable view of a Nieuport 11 cowling:



It is a detail of a contemporary autochrome of Jean Chaput's Nieuport 11 No 940 of Escadrille N 31, taken in April 1916. You can see the difference in sheen or reflectivity of the different surfaces of the natural metal cowling I was referring to.

You can find many more wonderful b/w studies of Nieuport cowlings, as well as this autochrome, in the marvelous book "René Dorme et Joseph Guiget, La Guerre aérienne de deux As, by Marc Chassard, Editions Aux Arts, 2002, ISBN 2-84010-046-0.

Greg

[Olson]

Greg, Your response is very much appreciated. I also note that the low resolution scan in your recent post does not show a band of distinct coloration around the sides of the cowl in this different angle, confirming your suggestion the "band" in the image initially referenced was due to variation in reflectance of the natural aluminum finish. I stand corrected, thanks.......
John Olson

[Sreiko]

Great info Greg. Do you have full size color image presented above?

[Kilian]

Was it allowed to fly combat missions with a captured allied aircraft? (sorry for the dumb question ;o) Ive never come across such issues in my literature until now.

[Sreiko]

I should see somewhere in my papers but I think that they used it on front against Russia.

[Gregvan]

Hi Kilian,

It's not a dumb question at all. It's quite remarkable, but it was fairly common for German fighter pilots to utilize captured Allied aircraft - almost always suitably re-marked with German insignia - in combat. In addition, the two-seater airmen of Fl. Abt. (A) 208 flew a captured Breguet 14 B2 on reconnaissance missions. The Bulgarians had an Armstrong-Whitworth FK 3 (IIRC) that was re-marked in Iron Crosses, but I don't know if they used it on operational flights.

Just off the top of my head, here are some other examples of fighter pilots:

Eduard von Schleich famously used a captured SPAD VII, and was shelled badly by German flak.

Otto Kissenberth of Jasta 23b flew a Sopwith Camel in combat, and was put out of the war when he was injured in a crash.

Otto Bernert had a Sopwith Pup when he commanded Jasta Boelcke, but I don't know if he flew it operationally or not. Later on Jasta Boelcke had both a captured Sopwith Camel and a SPAD for the pilots to test-fly, but I don't think they ever used them operationally.

Rudolf Windisch, in Jasta 32b, shot down and captured the SPAD VII of Capt. Oscar Monteiro Torres (from Portugal) of SPA 65. He is reported to have flown it in French markings on combat flights. After the urgent warnings of his comrades he painted it over in red, with Iron Cross insignia but retained the escadrille marking of SPA 65, and continued to fly it. He was later reportedly "banned" from flying this SPAD by higher authority, and went back to flying an Albatros D.V. Rammjaeger can tell you more about this, as he is the ultimate authority on Windisch.

Udet had a SPAD VII that he used as a runabout, a personal transport machine, but I don't believe he ever flew it in combat.

When he flew Rumplers with Fl. Abt. 7, Paul Bäumer repaired a captured British Nieuport and flew it as a personal aircraft - but not operationally.

One can only wonder about the consequences if any of these pilots had come down in Allied territory flying a captured machine. They didn't bring their pilots much luck, for Leffers was (apparently) killed when flying his captured Nieuport, Pfeiffer of Jasta 9 was fatally injured in the crash of a Nieuport, and Kissenberth was severely injured in his Camel.

In addition, Jastaschule I and II both had examples of captured Bitish and French aircraft, but these were not flown operationally.

I'm sure there are others that I can't remember right now.

Greg

[Kilian]

Originally Posted by Gregvan

Hi Kilian,

Eduard von Schleich famously used a captured SPAD VII, and was shelled badly by German flak.

Many thanks for this summary from memory
This would have been my next question if they shot somebody down by friendly fire ;o

regards
Kilian

[Olson]

The photographic image presented in post #11 shows the Maxim machine gun offset to the right, a la standard Eindecker practice, and stabilised (?) by a pair of horizontally positioned cross braces attached to the forward wing struts. The flare chutes on the port side of the cockpit and the anemometer mounted on the port interplane strut all present opportunities to add convincing scale detail.
I plan to copy the discussion on this forum for inclusion in my scale documentation. Many thanks to everyone..........:

[istf]

I find few drawing about the captured Nieuports.
I`m not sure it`s real, but i think it`s useful: WINGS PALETTE - Nieuport 17/21/23/24/27 - Germany (WWI)