Goering's D.VII

31 July 2007, 12:40 PM

I came across a line in an old "Aircraft in Profile" book (Vol.2) that says

Hermann Goering flew, at one time, a Fokker D. VII that was yellow with a red nose. This was while he was with JG1, presumably before the white one he got when he assumed command of the group. The article was written by Peter M. Gray, the copyright on the book is from 1969. Does anyone in this forum have any info that will either confirm or discredit this contention?

TIA,

spooz

Sreiko · 31 July 2007, 12:58 PM

I am not authoritative person for this airplane and pilot [better wait for Greg Van] but as I know

Hermann Goering flown following Fokker D.VII-

- 278/18, with white nose and rear tail and the fuselage in early streaky camouflage and lozenge wings.

- 294/18, with red nose and wheel, yellow rear fuselage under horizontal, white vertical rudder and part of the vertical stabilizer. Camouflage streaky and wings in lozenge.

- 4253/18 red front part of fuselage up to the cockpit, rest is white. Wings in lozenge.

- 5125/18 was all white.

31 July 2007, 01:47 PM

This is already more than I have been able to come up with. It sounds like 294/18 is what I am looking for. Camo scheme is very similar to 286/18 (

Willi Gabriel ), where in this case yellow of 294/18 replaces the orange of 286/18. Both planes were in the same Jasta, and would probably share some simalarities. Thanks so much for the help.

Dan_San_Abbott · 31 July 2007, 02:36 PM

Sreiko:
Could you please tell me your data source on when and where did Oblt.

Hermann Goering fly Fok.D.VIIF 4253/18?
Real curious???
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Sreiko · 31 July 2007, 03:36 PM

Hello Dan San,

source of info is magazine "Avions" number 144 [March-April 2005], and article "

Hermann Goering- le paladin de Hitler", author Christophe Cony. Article cover pages 4- 19 and on the page 16 is even the color profile of the above mentioned airplane and caption state that this is from October 1918, airfield Metz- Frescaty.

Best regards

Fill · 31 July 2007, 06:23 PM

Great post Sreiko !. nice work .
Thought I would add , although I'm sure that many have opened this source to have a look .There also seems to be a picture on page 17 of Part 1 Fokker DVII aces that show this aircraft ( they say probably 4253/18 ).

Dan_San_Abbott · 31 July 2007, 07:03 PM

Fill:
The photo on page of FOKKER D.VII ACES OF WORLD WAR1 is Oblt. the all white Fok.D.VIIF4125/18.
Blue skies,
Dan-san

Dan_San_Abbott · 31 July 2007, 07:13 PM

Sreiko:
First of all send me your regular mailing address.
Does Christophe Cony provide any source references to support his assertion that Oblt. Goering took over Oblt's Udet's Fok.D.VIIf 4253/18. It was painted in Udet's colors. At this point in time Udet is the Leading Ace and deputy Geschwader Kommandeur whenever Goering was absent. in Germany. Further I don't think Goering flew combat missions for some time. Secondly in October1918, Goering had his all white Fok.D.VIIF 5125/18.
Let met know if he has given any sources.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Gregvan · 31 July 2007, 07:49 PM

Hi All,

Now, Dan-San, calm down. Breathe deeply. The source for the attribution of D.VII F 4253/18 to Goering's red and white D.VII is indeed my books and articles. In this famous photo, the works number appears at the base of the rudder, of course:

Now, I wasn't the first to notice this. I think Dave Roberts and Alex Imrie put me on to this, and it may have been noted in Ferko's photo collection too. In my poor copy of this photo, it certainly looks like the works number is 2954, which of course corresponds to 4253/18. We all know that this was Udet's aircraft, which had a red fuselage and "LO!" insignia when he flew it in August and September 1918. Maybe - just maybe - Goering took over this D.VII after Udet was wounded and left on 26 September. Yes, I know Goering had the all-white job in late September, but it wouldn't have been unusual for a JG commander to have two aircraft. Yes, he probably did little operational flying, but he still may have had aircraft at his disposal. Willy Gabriel said that every pilot in Jasta 11 had two D.VIIs. Of course, we could have all read the works number wrong and it could be something else entirely. Just my humble opinion, for what it's worth.

Just to clarify and get this back on topic. Bodenschatz' "Jagd in Flanderns Himmel" has Goering's combat report for his victory of 20 July 1918, in which he flew D.VII F 294/18, with "Roten vorderrumpf mit gelben Schwanz." Though in old sources it is sometimes stated that the above photo shows 294/18, it definitely does NOT. I know of no photo showing 294/18. We can surmise that it had a red nose, struts and wheel covers, and a yellow tail. It would certainly have had a streaky camouflaged fuselage in common with other early D.VIIs of this serial range. Just to clarify.

Greg

Gregvan · 31 July 2007, 07:53 PM

Hi,

Here it is, with all the limitations of my poor print, scanning technology and the file size of this forum.

I realize that's a ridiculously poor image that isn't going to solve anything. I'm not going to get into a big argument with anyone over this. If you don't want to believe this was works number 2954 = 4253/18, that's fine with me. On most models the works number won't even show up readably anyway. Just paint the nose, struts and wheel covers red and the rear fuselage white and have fun.

Greg