Linen color for Voss F.I?

Tim West · 20 January 2008, 01:10 PM

I bet its some early Vargas work.

spacecrow · 24 January 2008, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Bucky- Rhys Davids originally thought the Triplane had a fixed engine and he was there, too. Silvery blue does not conflict with an F.I or Dr.I from the bottom. This was not a static observation on McCudden's part. He was in a combat with an opponent who put several holes in his aircraft and who was above him most of the time.

Blind faith in eye-witness reports in the face of overwhelming photographic evidence to the contrary means your opinion will not be valued too highly on some subjects. Looks pretty much like standard Dr.I paint, does it not? This is one of three photos taken front, side, and rear of F.I 103/17 late in its career and just before the 56 Sq engagement. Photo courtesy of Reinhard Kastner.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Attachment 8614

Hello all:

I noticed what appears to be a shaded rudder in the attached photo with some bleaching that does not appear to be photograph related. Does anyone have some thoughts on this? Thanks for any replys.

Taz · 24 January 2008, 11:31 AM

SC- I just picked up three originals of the three photographs and think they are patches from bullet holes possibly picked up during Voss' 11 September 1917 engagement with 45 Sq. They conform too well to the cross to be faults in the glass plate negative. I believe these photos were taken when Voss was on leave from 12-22 September 1917. Note the same repaired areas are visible on the side view taken at the same time. Photos available before were too low res to see the damage on the side view. The white paint contrasts highly with the faded white paint on the rudder and white was also used on the tailplane. Whether this white on the tailplane was later touched up with olive green, brown or gray/black paint is unknown. I believe these were the last three photographs taken of Voss' aircraft before it was shot down. This also matches the description of Voss' rudder in Rhys Davids' possession. The rudder reportedly had 11 bullet holes in it.

Taz
Terry Phillips

F.I 103 17 WN 1730 Profile Engine Cover 4800 Damaged Rudder.jpg

spacecrow · 24 January 2008, 11:59 AM

Taz, thanks so much for sharing all this info on these two interesting planes.

gipsymoth236k · 24 January 2008, 03:12 PM

Another interesting detail concerning the differences between the Fokker F.I and Dr.I Triplane rudders is shown here. The first photo is of 103/17 when new, with the second photo showing possible combat damage repairs to it later.

In contrast is the third photo of an original Dr.I rudder. Note the horizontal German cross arm's upper tips located just BELOW the upper rib, this in contrast to the F.I cross tips being located slightly ABOVE this rib.

Details...details....

Regards, Gary Sewall

davecww1 · 24 January 2008, 05:05 PM

Well I'm going to do my version pre 9/11/17 so I am keeping the white rudder without any patches on it. but I am going to put the small white marks on the nose (left side only) to match the photo.
Thanks for the helpful photos,
Dave

Tim West · 24 January 2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim West

Good morning Dave,

I think the patches are repairs. Probably white, in one photo they are way bright. There is another photo of 103, a 3/4 from the rear which appear to show the same thing on the rudder and tail plane. You can almost trace connecting lines to the blotches...as if they where bullet holes. Thats probably far fetched but you never know. With that particular photo its hard to tell if those blotches are on the plane...or....in the print.

I knew it!!! They were bullet holes. They line up. This further re inforces for me, that the blotches on the fuse are repairs...unless I see a better photo

Ok, gloating over...

Taz · 24 January 2008, 10:17 PM

Tim- Any bullet holes on the other side to match those? They had to go somewhere.

Just kidding. It could have been repairs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

tcrean7828 · 24 January 2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

SC- I just picked up three originals of the three photographs and think they are patches from bullet holes possibly picked up during Voss' 11 September 1917 engagement with 45 Sq. They conform too well to the cross to be faults in the glass plate negative. I believe these photos were taken when Voss was on leave from 12-22 September 1917. Note the same repaired areas are visible on the side view taken at the same time. Photos available before were too low res to see the damage on the side view. The white paint contrasts highly with the faded white paint on the rudder and white was also used on the tailplane. Whether this white on the tailplane was later touched up with olive green, brown or gray/black paint is unknown. I believe these were the last three photographs taken of Voss' aircraft before it was shot down. This also matches the description of Voss' rudder in Rhys Davids' possession. The rudder reportedly had 11 bullet holes in it.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Attachment 9282

Taz,
Very Cool!!!
Please keep us informed on progress.
You indicated that you picked up 3 new pics - are they of the complete F.I 103/17 or just the tail section???

tks in advance.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Tim West · 24 January 2008, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taz

Tim- Any bullet holes on the other side to match those? They had to go somewhere.

Just kidding. It could have been repairs.

Taz
Terry Phillips

Hehe, ok, I was heading to bed, but good point about the fuse blotches. I wasnt thinking so much that they were from bullets as just a linen repair. Even though there is wood under the linen, I dont think you want holes in it. I am thinking that now that I know the blotches on the rudder are repairs, that since the fuse blotches match, then it is plausible that they to are repairs.

Ok, about the bullet through the fuse theory... I am not a arms or guns guy but it is my understanding that the caliber and velocity of the ammo used might not have been large enough to make it all the way through. Maybe it was a graze? Or maybe, the rounds were luckily deflected by the gas tanks

Your thoughts may be true too. Its obvious that Voss' s mechanics were proud of that plane. They still do it this day..sign planes

I think thats part of the love affair with this plane. There are just so many things still to know and or to never know. Sort of like the loch ness monster