Nieuport 11 Bebe

Breguet · 5 February 2008, 02:53 AM

On Nieuports you often see the wings and fuselage portrayed with an outline (as in this photo). Why was it done and what colour is it?

Ronny Bar · 5 February 2008, 04:59 AM

Hi Breguet...

According to recent research done by Alan Toelle, those lines were Blue, as were the tapes on the interplane struts... (The same Dark Blue used for the cockades and rudder stripes...) and it seems its purpose were just aesthetics... With the introduction of Aluminum finish they were abandoned...

Ronny

womenfly2 · 5 February 2008, 05:31 AM

This is only what I heard from the guy's at Rhinebeck.

The outline was black. It symbolized the black outline border on a death notice.

Do not know the validity of this or truth. Anyone to confirm it, Mr. Abbott? maybe.

WF2

StephenLawson · 5 February 2008, 01:00 PM

Mr. Toelle talks about this as mentioned earlier here. Nieu. 11 was thought to be black. On the transition to the Nieu 11 & 16 with Camouflage (four colour) the tapes are believed to have been "horizon blue. a similar colour as the French steel helmets were painted. See the recent issue of the Albatros Productions on the Lafayette Nieuport fighters.

Ronny Bar · 5 February 2008, 02:00 PM

Also refer to Windsock Worldwide Vol 23, Nºs 5 and 6, September/October and November/December 2007... The two parts of Alan Toelle's article "Nieuport Camouflage of 1916"...

Ronny

Dan_San_Abbott · 5 February 2008, 05:41 PM

Ronny Bar:
It was my understanding that the blue in the French cockade is "horizon blue" which is define as the color of a bright clear sky, 10 degrees above the horizon. It is a light slightly greyish blue.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Ronny Bar · 5 February 2008, 07:13 PM

Hi Dan-San, I'm honoured...

According with Alan's report, the Blue used for the cockades, stripes and eventualy on the border lines of Nieuports 11, 16 and eventually early camouflaged 17s was a very Dark Blue, (Which, as you know appears as a very Light Grey on orthochromatic film depending on lighting conditions...) I was presented by Alan of enough photographic evidence documenting this, and I must say I'm quite convinced...

I think Horizon Blue was a different shade of Blue used for steel parts... (Including cabane and undercarriage struts sometimes...)

It seems that it was not untill 1918 that the French introduced Light Blue for their cockades...

Ronny

FOKKERJ · 5 February 2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breguet

On Nieuports you often see the wings and fuselage portrayed with an outline (as in this photo). Why was it done and what colour is it?

Hi Breguet,

I'm probably wrong, but I most always thought that the "Lines" were black and that they were a protective tape to cover seams like the four and five color patterns and the Blue and Salmon rib tapes you see so often on the wings of the German machines, except applied to the outer edges of the leading, trailing edges, and in between(wings and horizontal stabilizer).

Best Regards, Jay

I guess that I will have to restudy the fotografs to see the Blue.

It looks Black to me, whether this is an accurate replica or not.
I liked womenfly2's explanation.

FOKKERJ · 5 February 2008, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny Bar

Hi Breguet...

According to recent research done by Alan Toelle, those lines were Blue, as were the tapes on the interplane struts... (The same Dark Blue used for the cockades and rudder stripes...) and it seems its purpose were just aesthetics... With the introduction of Aluminum finish they were abandoned...

Ronny

Hi Ronny Bar,

Accurate or not, I'm positive that I have seen color profiles of Nieuports painted with the Aluminum finish, with the 'Black Line" around the flying surface's edges.

best Regards, FOKKERJ

jumpinjan · 6 February 2008, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronny Bar

... early camouflaged 17s was a very Dark Blue, (Which, as you know appears as a very Light Grey on orthochromatic film depending on lighting conditions...)

I'll look in my notebook, but even though the blue wavelengths have high sensitivity in ortho, I wouldn't say the appearent gray level for dark blue, will be light. I should have data that should help explain what level it is.
Jan
(The N11, in the photograph, was built & flown by Mr Ted Callhand, and the stripes are brown)