Who was "Green Tail"?

[sightreader]

My apologies if this is an FAQ, but who flew that green tailed Albatros that McCudden kept running into in his book, Flying Fury? I haven't finished the book yet, but it makes me most curious...

"We got close enough to open fire, and I engaged an Albatros, who was painted with a red nose, a yellow fuselage, and a green tail. He also had the letter K, on his top-plane. This Hun was destined to be always fighting my patrol somehow, and for the next three months we were continually meeting him."

Apparently the whole squadron was colored this way:

"By now I was in the middle of these Albatroses and saw that they were a patrol of good Huns whom we had fought before. They all had red noses and yellow fuselages, but each had a different coloured tail. There was a red, light blue - who I had sent to sports - black, yellow, black and white striped, and our dear old 'green tail'. By Jove! They were a tough lot."

Thanks for indulging my curiosity!

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour sightreader!

Flying Fury ... that is quite a book!

You are correct to assume that the identity of "Greentail" is an oft discussed subject. A search of threads stored at The Aerodrome will reveal much debate about the identity of the pilot ... if, in fact, it was but one pilot.

Alex Revell writes a convincing appendix to High In the Empty Blue, a history of 56 Squadron, that identifies the airman as Otto Könnecke of Jasta 5 and it does seem probable that McCudden did encounter the pilot at some time. However, it may well be that 56 Squadron was often battling with Jasta 5 which was a unit that could boast many who were adept in the air and the aircraft of the unit sported green tails ... so, perhaps, "Greentail" was actually several different adversaries.

Salut!
Kirk

[Dan_San_Abbott]

sightreader:
Greentail has been identified as Vzfw.Martin Klein of Jasta 5 KIA on 18 February 1918, over Beaurevoir flying a Alb.D.V. with a green tail, with gold star on the fuselage and the letter K on th wing.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[FOKKERJ]

Thanks sightreader, and thank you Dan-San for the information on Vzfw.Martin Klein of Jasta 5 and his albatros D.V.

Any information is greatly appreciated as always.

Regards, FOKKERJ

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by sightreader

My apologies if this is an FAQ, but who flew that green tailed Albatros that McCudden kept running into in his book, Flying Fury? I haven't finished the book yet, but it makes me most curious...

"We got close enough to open fire, and I engaged an Albatros, who was painted with a red nose, a yellow fuselage, and a green tail. He also had the letter K, on his top-plane. This Hun was destined to be always fighting my patrol somehow, and for the next three months we were continually meeting him."

Apparently the whole squadron was colored this way:

"By now I was in the middle of these Albatroses and saw that they were a patrol of good Huns whom we had fought before. They all had red noses and yellow fuselages, but each had a different coloured tail. There was a red, light blue - who I had sent to sports - black, yellow, black and white striped, and our dear old 'green tail'. By Jove! They were a tough lot."

Thanks for indulging my curiosity!

Thanks sightreader, and thank you Dan-San for the information on Vzfw.Martin Klein of Jasta 5 and his albatros D.V.

I most always thought Jasta 5's Albatrii were Green tailed with a Red out line.
Then I noticed that at the end of AMERICAL/GRYPHON's catalog that they offered decals for Jasta 5 for "Green" tails, "Blue" tails, and "Red" tails, a sheet each. A/G's Dr. Merril is well known for his thorough research efforts.
Can anyone please enlighten me on the three or more colors of tail at Jasta 5?
I've read elsewhere of McCudden's uncanny ability of noting the colors of his enemies' machines during aerial combat, quite an impressive fellow! I haven't read "FLYING FURY" since 1969.

Any information is greatly appreciated as always.

Regards, FOKKERJ

[Darryl]

All,

Please see:

Green Tail

Wherein this whole thing was covered extensively! It is relatively certain that J5 had all "Green" tails with red lining at the time in question. This, IMHO, rules out J5 as the home of THE "Green-Tail". The problem is that there are few other candidates. J35B is possible but were out of area for the earliest sighting.

I spent two years on this with Ira and we satisfied ourselves as to who it was not but could not prove our selection for the job...accordingly we did not publish.

regards

Darryl

[alex_revell]

Dan-San
Not quite sure what you are saying in your post. Are you saying that Klein was the greentailed Albatros shot down by McCudden on 18th Feb 1918, or merely that the 'greentail' that 56 Sqdn met so frequently was Klein.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Alex Revell:
With McCudden's description of Greentail, it fits the physical description of Vzfw. Martin Klein's Alb.D.V, date and location, Beaurevoir is. In a discussion with Rick Duiven some time ago, He thought it might be a pilot from Jasta 35b. Uffz. Justus Kaiser. I just got a No.53 Michelin Map out and checked locations. Beaurevoir is 43 km south-east of Vitry-en Artois. That rules out Klein and Jasta 5, it is too far south and out of the 56 squadron patrol area. Uffz. Kaiser was shot over a farm, at Izel which is in No.56 Squadron patrol area and is 3.5 km north of Vitry-en-Artois. Uffz Kaiser is probably 'green tail" Alex, I know you think it is Ltn. Konnecke, but he was not shot down on 18 February 1918. Jasta 5 was in the German 2.Armee and would not be flying the the area of the !7.Armee.
I shall correct what I had posted. Thanks Alex.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[sightreader]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Alex Revell:
With McCudden's description of Greentail, it fits the physical description of Vzfw. Martin Klein's Alb.D.V, date and location, Beaurevoir is In a discussion with Rick Duiven some time ago, I thought it might be a pilot from Jasta 35b. Uffz. Justus Kaiser. I just got a No.53 Michelin Map out and checked locations. Beaurevoir is 43 km south-east of Vitry-en Artois. That rules out Klein. Uffz. Kaiser was shot over a farm at Izel which is in No.56 Squadron patrol area and is 3.5 km north of vitry-en-Artois. uffz Kaiser is probably 'green tail"
I shall correct what I had posted. Thanks Alex.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

The level of expertise in this forum boggles the mind.

[alex_revell]

Dan-San
The identity of McCudden's victories on Feb 18 1918 was solved many, many years ago. The only candidate we had in the German lost lists was Kaiser, but we had no details of him. Dr Bock came up with the fact that he was in Jasta 35b; Alex Imrie had the Jasta 35b war diary; the account in it was a mirror image of McCudden's combat report and it also gave us the name of the pilot of the blue-tailed Albatros McCudden claimed (von Stein). Some time later an article was published in C&C (American) by, from memory, Rick Duiven, which set forth the same conclusions. It would appear that these were obtained from Dr Bock.
Klein and von Hippel were never candidates for McCudden's victories on Feb 18 and were ruled out straightaway. Both the time and area were completely wrong. They were both victims of a Flight SE5as from 84 Sqdn led by Hugh Saunders.
The reason I favoured Konnecke of Jasta 5 as most probably the pilot of the greentailed Albatros met so frequently by 56 Sqdn was because that pilot was obviously very experienced. In Hippel's account of the action of Feb 18 he mentions that Klein had only been in the Jasta a short time (56 first met 'greentail' in November 1917) and had no victories.
Sightreader, Your description of mind boggling is flattering, but it's only the result of long years of study and careful research, nothing more.