Colors Of French Reconnaissance Machines Circa late 1915 Early 1916?

[Old Man]

I am contemplating a scratchbuild of a Maurice Farman pusher operating in the above period. I have profiles of two possible subjects, one an M.F. 11 in late 1915, one an M.F. 11bis operating in the summer of 1916. The profile of the first shows it in a light, bright green; the profile of the latter shows it in a dark, brown toned, but not really olive, green. I know very little about French marking practices in this period, and gather there is not a great deal of solid information regarding their two-seaters at this time. I have read they were generally painted in a single dark color, which might have been dark brown or dark green. I have seen on a listing of French aircraft finishes in WWII mention of a paint similar in tone to P.C. 10, said to have been employed as an uppersurface color and primer from 1918, but out of use by the mid 1930s.

I would appreciate greatly any help anyone could give on this.

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour mon vieil!

French Aircraft of The First World War, by Davilla and Soltan, offers a profile, by Durkota, of a Maurice Farman M.F.11bis (and a photograph of the subject). Though the unit is not known the pilot is noted as Capitaine Happe. The description of the colours given is "Nacelle finished in pale gray and all wings finished in clear-doped linen overall. The tailboom and tailboom struts were varnished wood. Roundels appeared on wings in four positions. An image of the French Croix de Guerre award with one palm was painted on the port side of the nacelle".

Color Profiles of World War 1 Combat Planes by Apostolo and Bignozzi includes a couple of profiles of the M.F.11 in French service, both are illustrated with a green nacelle, but, no specific detail is offered, and a five view, by Gigli, is also produced in which the nacelle is illustrated as grey.

Both volumes offer a great deal of information about the M.F.11, but, details about colours would seem to be few ... perhaps Bruno would know where to find specific data about French aircraft from the period ...

Hats off to one who would build a model of a Maurice Farman M.F.11 from scratch!

Salut
Kirk

[Sreiko]

Only paint which enter service in 1918 and which was used until WW2 was Kaki. Average match is FS 595b 24098. Paint was acetone based and in widely use after WW1.

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by Sreiko

Only paint which enter service in 1918 and which was used until WW2 was Kaki. Average match is FS 595b 24098. Paint was acetone based and in widely use after WW1.

I had feared that was the case with the mentioned paint, but since the listing was focused on WWII, thought there was a chance they had got a little sloppy in the earliest reference.

I still feel there is a chance the new paint preserved, in a new formula perhaps, a color already in use, as its tone is very similar to that in the profile of the darker MF 11bis that I have.

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by Kirk R. Lowry

Bonjour mon vieil!

French Aircraft of The First World War, by Davilla and Soltan, offers a profile, by Durkota, of a Maurice Farman M.F.11bis (and a photograph of the subject). Though the unit is not known the pilot is noted as Capitaine Happe. The description of the colours given is "Nacelle finished in pale gray and all wings finished in clear-doped linen overall. The tailboom and tailboom struts were varnished wood. Roundels appeared on wings in four positions. An image of the French Croix de Guerre award with one palm was painted on the port side of the nacelle".

Color Profiles of World War 1 Combat Planes by Apostolo and Bignozzi includes a couple of profiles of the M.F.11 in French service, both are illustrated with a green nacelle, but, no specific detail is offered, and a five view, by Gigli, is also produced in which the nacelle is illustrated as grey.

Both volumes offer a great deal of information about the M.F.11, but, details about colours would seem to be few ... perhaps Bruno would know where to find specific data about French aircraft from the period ...

Hats off to one who would build a model of a Maurice Farman M.F.11 from scratch!

Salut
Kirk

I am one day going to have to acquire the Davila & Soltan volumn, expensive as it is.

Does the profile of Capt. Happe's machine show a sort of bulge at the rear of the nacelle? Capt. Happe is credited with designing a long-range modification of the M.F. 11, dubbed 'the Camel' from the shape and position of its extra tank. I do not recall off-hand the number of his escadrille, but it, and he, are well known as early exponents of bombing, and participated in attacks on the Rhineland.

I have read mention of Farman 11 types with with a nacelle in the grey-blue primer commonly employed by the French aviation industry at this period, and have seen a couple of photographs, at least, where the nacelle certainly reads a bit darker in tone than the presumably natural linen of the wings. The profiles I am using are from Mr. Denis Albin's history of SPA62, from founding to present day, which includes some detail on the founding period when it operated as MF 62. The gentleman has clearly done his homework, and so I am inclined to take even the pale green profile seriously, though of course one always wants confirmation.

I am a hardened scratchbuilder, having been driven to it by my interest in obscure types and hide-bound disinclination to learn the mysteries of resin and vacu-form kits. This will not be my first "lattice tail": I have done a Caudron G3 and an F.E. 8, some pictures of which are probably still in the archives of the modeling forum here on the Aerodrome. At this point I expect to use the drawings in my old Harleyford Reconnaissance and Bomber Aircraft 1914-1918 volumn for general arrangements (though I will have to 'draw' a little something myself for the 11bis nacelle it seems, if I choose that subject). I recently came upon a trove of items here Aircraft including period sketches of internal arrangements, and will be acquiring soon some items on the type from the WWI Aero people, who have on their Master Materials List many very useful things.

[gilles]

Hello!

The only colors have heard for MF11 fuselage is light grey or blue grey (and maybe these are two descriptions for only one color). Farman F40 were painted a darker grey, maybe some late MF11s were also dark grey ?




About Happe's special MF11s "camel back", I have a multi part article on Happe but there is not a single picture of these aircrafts . Their serials were 1410 to 1415, except 1413.

Gilles

[Old Man]

Originally Posted by gilles

Hello!

The only colors have heard for MF11 fuselage is light grey or blue grey (and maybe these are two descriptions for only one color). Farman F40 were painted a darker grey, maybe some late MF11s were also dark grey ?




About Happe's special MF11s "camel back", I have a multi part article on Happe but there is not a single picture of these aircrafts . Their serials were 1410 to 1415, except 1413.

Gilles

Thank you, Mr. Gilles!

Those are very interesting pictures, the Japanese one particularly.

It is beginning to look like the safest course for a 1915 service Farman would be a nacelle in the pale blue-grey primer color, and the rest in natural linen and wood.

My impression of an upper surface dark color for French reconnaissance machines in the 1916 period comes from the Windsock number on the Caudron G3 that I used in an earlier build, and from an exchange of notes with Mr. Albin, who was an active member here a while back, and prepared the M.F. 11bis profile I had saved to disk when he had posted it here. The Caudron Windsock also contains a mention that a painting by the famous Mr. Farre shows a Caudron with its 'nacelle painted French blue, Farman style'.

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Originally Posted by Old Man

I am one day going to have to acquire the Davila & Soltan volume, expensive as it is.

You will not be sorry for the purchase ... French Aircraft of the First World War is always being taken from the shelf.

The description of the Maurice Farman M.F.11 is more than ten pages in length (and includes drawings and more than ten photographs ... though none of the cockpit interior).

Details of the service of Happe with MF 29 when based at Belfort during the summer of 1915 are described. A reference to a version known as the camel was not discovered though numerous variants are detailed. One photograph of what is noted as M.F.11 serial number 742 of MF 29 depicts a nacelle with area behind the cockpit raised to, essentially, the height of the area before the cockpit ... perhaps the camel ... for what it may be worth, the nacelle would seem to be of a light shade, perhaps, the "light grey or blue grey".

As previously indicated the aircraft of which the profile exists was a M.F. 11bis which was photographed in 1916. The nacelle is of a shade neither particularly light nor dark ... "a darker grey" may be correct. That is the colour that Durkota has applied.

My father was a builder of model aircraft from scratch and aircraft of The Great War were often the subject chosen so I appreciate the work you undertake and hope to see photographs of the result at some point ... bonne chance!

Kirk

[Flamingo]

Hello Old Man

here are some Windsock issues with MF.11 material

Windsock 1992 Vol. 8 No. 1 ** Rigging Diagram
Windsock 1992 Vol. 8 No. 2 (Interior) ** Archive
Windsock 1992 Vol. 8 No. 5 72nd Plan (Colour) (Details) (Interior) ***** Plans Feature: Maurice Farman Serie 11
Windsock 1993 Vol. 9 No. 6 The Aerial dart
Windsock 1994 Vol. 10 No. 3 (Details) ** Avions-Torpilleurs: Le Prieur's Rockets
Windsock 1994 Vol. 10 No. 6 (Details) *** Pusher Cockpits


They were taken from the online file of the Hikoki book. All the MF.11 scources are more than two pages of a Word document!

To get the whole file just visit this thread

Master index of WW I aircraft references

BTW I was a little disappointed that my post got no reaction at all as I think this file is a Must Have.

Joachim

[Flamingo]

And to help with the colours here are two pictures of the MF.7 at Paris



from my memory I would say the actual colour was somewhere in between.

This is the MF.11 in Brussels




and may I include a picture of my 72nd Blue Rider model?



Joachim