RedBlue w/Skull

[jumpinjan]

Originally Posted by Froggy

...in Fokker DVII anthology 1

That is my reference book too, but I do not agree. My criteria is more pessimistic, I don't see it. Could there be better photos available to really tell yes or no?

[iart7]

This is a good photo, Froggy. I hadn't seen it. I can easily do the tail in lozenge. The problem is that I am not sure what I see either. It could be. It might be reflection of light from cross and trees.

Oh! Hey, there it is ... barely visible, the "BalkenKreuz" over-painted in blue!

Froggy, What is "idem for aera close to the cockpit painted in blue an not in red", please be more specific?

Another problem I see coming up with this photo ... take note ... Look at the "red" NOSE! If red shows up lighter than blue, what about the "red" in Jasta 4 photos of "DDN". But I'm just a ignorant noob and there must be a X-splanation.

I've PhotoShopped the image (only making it darker) to improve the photo:

[Froggy]

Hello

here is my interpretation for that I mentionned on my precedent
post



cordialement
Bruno

[Froggy]

Dont worry for the look like "rose" red-It is sunlight effect

here is a second photo on another angle
look at bottom side of elevator-Lozanges are clearly visible



Bruno

[hoodoo]

Originally Posted by Froggy

Dont worry for the look like "rose" red-It is sunlight effect

here is a second photo on another angle
look at bottom side of elevator-Lozanges are clearly visible



Bruno

To me, I can't interpret the elevators as being anything other than Lozenge with these two photos. I checked all the art I could find. No one seems to have Lozenges on this particular aircraft, but right now, especially with the second pic in the offing I can't see how they missed this....perhaps these pics were not used as references?

As for the horizontal stabilizers, I can't tell, to me that would be a 50/50 possibility unless a more refined pic is examined or a newer pic comes in. I have seen a rendition of a Pfalz DXII with dark blue or black horizontal stabilizers but with lozenge elevators.

[iart7]

“The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it, and error is error even if everybody believes it.” -- Fulton J. Sheen

Thank you, Bruno. I am inclined to believe now!





Perhaps this is the truth!

Art

[BLOWHARD]

perhaps these pics were not used as references?

AFAIK there are only 4 photos of this plane all taken at roughly the same time after it's capture. What other reference would you use? Dave Roberts shows the entire underside of the elevators and horizontal stabilizer in 5 color fabric but shows the upper elevator and tail in blue. (of course there's the argument about 4 vs 5 color on this plane...)
It's hard to tell with just the profile but it looks like Jan's version also shows blue upper and printed lower tail.
I really can't tell what's going on with the upper elevators.
Iart and anyone else, if you see printed fabric on the elevators does it follow that the entire horizontal surface is also in printed fabric? I think what Dave Roberts and Jan show is more likely. The entire fuselage plus part of the fin are painted but not the rest of the upper tail? Leaving the underside unpainted seems more likely than leaving both unpainted. It was common not to paint the upper surfaces and not the lower, yes? Plus, the other Jasta 15 planes? They show painted upper tails surfaces, right? Looks like to me.

Where is Dan-San when you need him??? Has anyone examined the real photos? It's much harder to see what's going on with offset reproductions.
I really think Dave Roberts and Jan have it right here.

Iart, not to keep you jumping through hoops...but...nit-pick time It looks like your fuselage cross borders are too thin Dave Roberts shows some pretty big wing crosses and borders too, probably based on other Jasta 15 planes at the time.

[iart7]

Dave, Thanks for observations ... No hoops in hopeless search for the truth.

I understand and will make the white part of crosses thicker. Black too, a bit. Wing crosses extend to the front and trailing edge, right?

However, your comments about the tail wing painted or unpainted, top or bottom, elevator or horizontal part is confusing to me. In clear terms, what is your opinion on the blue vs lozenge tail wing? I think I understand you to say entire TOP TAIL WING is blue and entire underside of the TAIL WING is lozenge, right?

I assume Dan-San will chime in soon and I'd like his opinion too.

Greg van Wyngarden?

Bruno, in clear terms, what is your opinion?

Cliff, do you see lozenge on tailwing?

I think I can get my paintskin to show a parked D.VII with elevator in down position with a blue top tailwing.

Art (currently getting ready for bed ... to dream of sugar plums and balkenkreuz's ... stawberry fields and lozenges ... in the sky with diamonds)

[Froggy]

Bonjour A tous

I remain on my position concerning the fact that the upper surface of elevator was no painted from my point of view, but I agree with Blowhard, we have only 4 poor photos at our disposal to made our opinion...Anyway ,that you paint or not the superior surface of the elevator, nobody can contradict you with certainty I think

But we are sure of 3things

1)The fabric was in five colours (confirmed by Dan san Abbott on another thread concerning same subject)

2)The lower surface of elevator was non painted and left in fabric losenge

3) I recommend you very Highly the 3 Fokker DVII (anthology 1 2 and 3) of windsock datafiles (albatros productions) and the two Osprey Fokker DVII Aces Of WW1 (part 1 et 2) by Norman Franks and Greg VanWyngarden

Cordialement

Bruno

(by the way -are you painting a skin for red baron 3 D ??)

[jumpinjan]

Originally Posted by Froggy

2)The lower surface of elevator was non painted and left in fabric losenge

You need to be careful saying things like that. Just because there are some dark mottling in the photo, you can't assume its lozenge. This morning I read again Mr Roberts characterization article of 382/18 and I cannot agree with his findings yet.
The orthochromatic photo emulation that I have developed, shows that the grayish magenta & ochre polygons are the darkest, and not the reddish lilac (pink) that he understood as "dark". I don't know yet, what new affect that has on the trials of fitting 4-color vs. 5-color to the dark mottled, elevator undersides. First of all, we need a real photograph to look at.
Jan