Kiffin Rockwell's Nieuports

[Poandneedy]

Hi Guys,
A few questions....
I want to do Rockwells Ni. 11....I just got the Special Hobby 11 in the mail.
1. Was it camo. like Lufbery's.
2. Did it have any special markings?
3. Serial No.?

I did a version of the 17 using my imagination....
Assumptions...
1. Early version 17 with the 16 cowl.
a. I chopped the 17 cowl down to look like a 16.
2. Silver / grey with the Escadrille "Indian" and a red "R" on the fuse.
I don't know if it's correct and the work was sub par for what's seen on here but since it just sits on a muddy field on a shelf it's ok for me. The rigging is pitiful and I promise to do better on the 11.

I'd just like to know if any of my assumptions were correct or not.
And... I'd like to have your suggestions.

One more thing.....where are the pilot models for these 1/32 scale planes....it would be nice to have seated pilots in them...I guess it goes back to my armor diorama days...
Later,
John

[davecww1]

Hi John,
Glad to see another Lafayette fan!
Just checked the Osprey book SPA 124 Lafayette Escadrille by Jon Guttman and there is a profile of Kiffin Rockwell's N.11. It is camouflaged green and brown, although latest research says it may be 4 colors, dark & light green, and dark & light brown, there was an article in one of the latest Windsock magazines although I do not have that one. The undersides were painted a sky blue, and the outlines of the wings and tail section were a medium blue. Personal marking was a white R - check photos since it has a curved pointed tip to the trailing arm on the R. The serial # was N 1454.
As for his N.17 it should have the standard cowl, the N16 style cowl would make it a N21 such as Lufbery's L...y? N1615. I have no profile of Rockwell's N 17, but he was flying N1811 when killed on 23 September 1916. Photos of early N.17's flown by Thaw as well as Lufbery"s N 21 have no indian head, I believe these were added later. A good reference for these planes is the book Nieuport fliers of the Lafayette from Windsock, although I misplaced my copy somewhere so can't check to see if there is a profile of this aircraft.
Hope this helps,
Dave

[Kilian]

Is this the aircraft? Unfortunately we see only the front part.

Photo of Rockwell
Retouched but larger photo
--

[davecww1]

Hi Killian,
that is a different aircraft, it appears to be overall clear doped linen or maybe beige or light blue...you know how hard it is to tell colors on B&W photos! The dark center stripe appears to just be the shadow from the upper wing. also the circle on the wheel cover and the small insignia on the fuselage side, and no R point to another aircraft...well I'll have to search for my Windsock book tonight!
Thanks,
Dave

[davecww1]

OK I found my book! According to Jon Guttman's book Nieuport flyers of the lafayette, the plane shown in the photo posted by Killian is Rockwell testing the Lewis gun on CHAPMAN'S N.1148. they often took photos of various pilots in other pilots aircraft, and many were shared by various pilots...this is what makes it fun for us later day researchers! There is a profile of this plane, painted a solid cream color with scarlet wheel covers with black highlight, and the upper wing cockades were Russian - red/blue/white - same as the USAS 2 years later!
Dave

[spacecrow]

Originally Posted by davecww1

Hi John,
Glad to see another Lafayette fan!
Just checked the Osprey book SPA 124 Lafayette Escadrille by Jon Guttman and there is a profile of Kiffin Rockwell's N.11. It is camouflaged green and brown, although latest research says it may be 4 colors, dark & light green, and dark & light brown, there was an article in one of the latest Windsock magazines although I do not have that one. The undersides were painted a sky blue, and the outlines of the wings and tail section were a medium blue. Personal marking was a white R - check photos since it has a curved pointed tip to the trailing arm on the R. The serial # was N 1454.
As for his N.17 it should have the standard cowl, the N16 style cowl would make it a N21 such as Lufbery's L...y? N1615. I have no profile of Rockwell's N 17, but he was flying N1811 when killed on 23 September 1916. Photos of early N.17's flown by Thaw as well as Lufbery"s N 21 have no indian head, I believe these were added later. A good reference for these planes is the book Nieuport fliers of the Lafayette from Windsock, although I misplaced my copy somewhere so can't check to see if there is a profile of this aircraft.
Hope this helps,
Dave

Hello Dave. The Rockwell N.11 interests me too.

As you said, you don't have the issue. But I wonder how certain the evidence is of 4 color upper surfaces. Was it painted at the squadron level?

[Cliff]

See the real colour photo of N.940 at:
Nieuport picture

Definitly two shades of green and possibly two shades of brown ( the top wing shadow makes it hard to tell, but the dark colour beneath looks somewhat different than the dark green).

Cliff

[davecww1]

Yes the Nieuport 11's illustrated by Bob Pearson in the Nieuport flyers of the Lafayette are shown in the 4 color camouflage as well, based on the recent research of Alan Toelle, one of the most noted authorities of French WW1 colors. He also wrote the recent Windsock articles, so he probably shows us some facts to back up his findings.
Thanks,
Dave

[Poandneedy]

Wow! Thanks Guys,
A wealth of information and a book list I need to acquire.
I'm going to try to do McConnell's planes also since he has a connection to North Carolina. I think I have a better idea about his anyway but the four color camo. will be useful.
I wish I'd had sense enough to ask before doing my water colors...ah live and learn.

thanks,
John

[spacecrow]

Originally Posted by Poandneedy

I'm going to try to do McConnell's planes also since he has a connection to North Carolina.

Thanks Cliff and Dave!

BTW John, Rockwell was from Asheville NC. His house still stands on Hillside Street and there is a historical marker.