Application of printed fabrics.

Dan_San_Abbott · 19 April 2008, 01:30 PM

Ladies and Gentlemen;
Steve Lawson and I have had a discussion of printed ribs tapes. Steve believes that dark rib tapes can be applied to the upper and lower surface of wings. I have stated the upper surfaces had the dark printed rib tapes and the under surface had light colored printed fabric rib tapes. Idflieg was very specific about what went were in the regard to the dark and light fabric, and I quote from Flugzeugmeisterie Adlershof document dated 21 April 1917, it states in the third paragraph:
"The dark colored printed fabric is for all upper wing surfaces of the aircraft, and the sides of the fuselage, on the contary, the light fabric isonly intended for under surface of the wings and the under surface of the fuselage."
The dark patterned rib tapes are for the upper surfaces and the light pattern rib tapes are only for the under surface of the wings (and tailplane).
Blue skies,
Dan-San

StephenLawson · 20 April 2008, 02:46 AM

As Dan has said it is a difference of opinion through what each of us has studied. If it were a perfect world we would have an image of the leading edge before the horizontal tape was added. Then we could see the upper and lower tapes and whether they were two or one kind of continous tape.

We know that the Salmon pink and lt. blue and in the rare case of plain linen was all in one piece. One rib tape around the rib cap profile. Upper and lower surface.

That is quite clear from all known accounts and relevant images.

Where Dan and I differ is that with the lozenge fabric. He believes that upper surfaces were only covered in upper surface lozenge to include the rib tapes. And as well that under surfaces were covered in undersurface coloured lozenge only.

The undersurface fabric I have seen that causes me to see it differently is in my care at the Lafayette Foundation. Dan has seen this too in 1998. This undersurface lozenge wing covering has dark uppersurface rib tapes. This has the hallmarks of being factory applied over the existing fields.

I believe that they would not concern themselves by slowing production to accomadate the Iflieg order as the undersurfaces were the only one affected. Why cut rib tapes and sew two opposing colours together when they had simply used one piece Salmon pink, lt blue and plain linen tapes in one piece? As long as lozenge upper surfaces and under surfaces envelops met Idflieg specs I dont think they concerned themselves about the tapes. They had schedules to keep and contracts to meet. Also with war time shortages later would further be hampered. In general that is my side.

Dan is a keen research hound and I respect him. We are simply presenting our opinions that are based in our research.

StephenLawson · 20 April 2008, 02:52 AM

Just for clarity the horizontal tapes followed the wing profile and overlaped slightly from above. Therefore with the lozenge fabric the underside would always have a border if you will, of the overlapping upper surface lozenge.

womenfly2 · 20 April 2008, 04:32 AM

... interesting. I see both points.

Even if the rules were adhered too very strictly, (as Mr. Abbott stated) there is always the possibility, do to supply shortages, there may have been some or a large number of aircraft with one type of lozenge rib tape on the upper and lower wing (as Mr. Lawson stated).

As with today's supply of product, we at work substitute parts all the time to keep production going.

Would they have not done the same? Hence your are both correct. The question is which aircraft had this done?

Just my 2-cents,
WF2

Bookmaker · 20 April 2008, 07:22 AM

Interesting study. I have a question. Is it necessary to use one countinuous ribtape to cover upper and lower? I am not a full scale builder, but it is my understanding that the taping was to provide extra strength (thickness) in high stress areas. If so, it would not seem necessary to run one tape all around the wing. Infact, it would seem to add extra difficulty.

Dale

Laserlloyd · 20 April 2008, 07:49 AM

Bookmaker and All:

Good point, I thought I had seen a Fokker factory photo showing the sewing of the rib tape to the wings in another thread. Maybe someone remembers it and can repost it or place a link to it.

Lloyd...

Patrick · 20 April 2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bookmaker

Interesting study. I have a question. Is it necessary to use one countinuous ribtape to cover upper and lower? I am not a full scale builder, but it is my understanding that the taping was to provide extra strength (thickness) in high stress areas. If so, it would not seem necessary to run one tape all around the wing. Infact, it would seem to add extra difficulty.

Dale

And I thought that the purpose of the tape was to seal and protect the stitching where the fabric was fastened to the ribs. I agree with your point, seems like it would be easier to use two pieces, top and bottom, than to wrap one long piece all the way around. Maybe someone who's a builder or has worked on a restoration can comment?

Dan_San_Abbott · 20 April 2008, 08:51 AM

Ladies and Gentlemen:
There were odd things about the printed fabrics. First of all I agree that in some cases the dark tapes may have been used also on the lower surface, such as the piece of fabric that Steve is alluding to. Unfortunately, I don't recall this at all, if I did it would simlify the question. Possibly Steve can put a photo of it on the Forum.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Hans · 20 April 2008, 12:27 PM

How is the Quebec Fokker D.VII done?

World War I Modeling Page

To me it looks like 'dark' lozenge.

And here's the Bruxelles Halberstadt - light lozenge....

World War I Modeling Page

Are there any other artefacts still covered in original lozenge? The LVG' tail in Hannover has linen rib bands, so it's no help.

H

Dan_San_Abbott · 20 April 2008, 01:26 PM

Hans:
The Brome County Fokker D.VII is a classic example how the rib tape can be confused. In this case the under surface rib tapes are the bottom surface light pattern five color fabric strips that has been discolored from water staining the fabric and the rib tapes. These rib tapes could be construed to be the dark upper pattern rib tapes. Check the colors in the rib tapes and you will find they match the lozenges colors on the bottom surface of the upper wing. The tinted varnish has altered the light blue lozenge to a green and the ruby lozenge to pink. I suspect the varnish contained a yellow pigment.
The bottom surface of the upper wing of the Halb.C.VI in Brussels, is the light colored five color pattern with matching rib tapes. That is a very good shot of the five color day pattern light colored fabric.
Blue skies,
Dan-San