Markings for MvR's 425/17

[Laserlloyd]

Hi CWatson:

Yes, these have been published before. There are two photos of J11's Ltn. Richard Wenzl's Dr.I 178/17. The plane next to it has been thought to be 152/17 or 425/17. To me the markings are closer to what was on 425/17 but that is my opinion.

Lloyd...

[RAGIII]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

RAGIII:
I can confirm to you my fabric sample from Fok.DR.I 425/17 did not have any other color than a dark red and clear dope on it.
I cannot speak of the samples held by the Imperial War Museum in London, especially the large piece of the upper wing cross, the left lower wing cross in the Australian War Museum Canberra, The several pieces I have examined, all appeared to have no under coat of any color under the dark red, however, I did not flake off the red paint to see what was under-neath. I have seen, samples with a definite sky blue under coating. I might add the cross field under the lower wing, were clear doped only, without the white crossfields. I have assumed the samples without any under color were from those locations. I can see no reason why Fok.DR.I would be not delivered without the camouflage streaked finish. In Alan Toelle's comment in his test report of four samples examined that the red paint was crudely mixed in the field, not at a factory. This is in regard to the large carbon black particulates mixed with the vermilion red paint.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Thanks Dan!
Without any Bull.... or crap we can say the following.
1. DR1425/17 was painted Red at the time that the incorrect Thicker interpretation of the Idflieg order was in use in many Jastas.. Thick crosses as seen on any given Jasta 11 triplane.( Except apparently on the lower wing undersurface of 425/17).
2. DR1425/17 had its crosses changed on the fuselage and upper wing to the more correct,later interpretation of the Idflieg order.
3. NO COLORS other than Red, Black, Blue and white were used for any of these changes.
4. That the progression in changes occurred is proven by the EXISTING cross samples held in museums.
Conclusion, no matter whether MvR flew the aircraft before April 21st or not, 425/17 was painted red for MvR before the Idflieg order, and the crosses were changed over a period of time incorperating incorrect thick crosses and the more correct thin version. The underwing seems to have been in transition from the Iron cross to the Balkan cross when shot down. Can anyone prove it was in an AFP, at JG1, or any other scenario, NO. But if as you have said in the past,425/17 arrived just a day or 2 before April 21st, and was painted red there would NOT be the TRANSITION of cross markings changed with only red,black and white. There would be no need for the intermediate thick style as Jasta 11/JG1 already had transitioned to the correct style of painting.
RAGIII

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Lloyd:
My statements relative to the statement you made, are without rancour or anger. My intent is stick to the facts. Unfortunately there are very few facts about Fok.DR.I 425/17. After my posting listing all known facts there are still assumptions being made. When I see statements that include , perhaps, I assume, or, I believe, what follows is not a fact, but an assumption.
[I]For example, Perzina Pianoforte Fabrik and Pianoforte Fabrik Neutzmann. Perzina Pianoforet Fabrik made the DR.I wings, covered and painted them, and shipped to Fokker Flugzeugwerke complete wing sets, to a specific serial number and w.n. stenciuled on the wings. While I know Perzina Pianoforte Fabrik made the wings, I dion't know as a fact, that Perzina stenciled the aircraft serial and werke numbers on the wings. I am sure they stenciled their numbers on the wing sets. It appears that Fokker Flugzeugwerke became a metal working company, after aquiring the two piano manufacturing companies in 1916.
When I make a statement, and unsure of the facts I qualify it by using, I assume,to let the reader know it is an assumption. And of late, I do it in Italics.
Lloyd, unfortunately, I have not figured out how to include tone in my writing.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[Laserlloyd]

Hi Dan-San:

Thanks for the response. I hope that we will see new evidence that will answer some of these puzzling questions soon.

Thanks for your help. You and some others here help me sharpen my knowledge with your intellect.

You are correct, "I have not figured out how to include tone in my writing" too. Hope all is well with you. Are you currently working on any projects.

Thanks..

Lloyd...