Rumeys "Demon Head" Albatros of July 1917

Deedoubleyou · 20 July 2008, 01:39 AM

Fellow Enthusiasts,

I could use a bit of help. Looking for images of this enigmatic machine and clues to the colors employed. I am collaborating with another wingnut to produce a reproduction of the Jasta 5 line up at Boisstrancourt in July 1917 in 1/48 scale. There are quite a few markings of these machines available and those that are not don't appear beyond some masking and the paintbrush. The two that are the problem children are the Bavarian pattern and Rumeys Demon head. I will battle with the scanner and Adobe Illustrator for the Bavarian pattern but I am not optimistic about that happening any time soon. The quandary right now is my lack of reference for the Rumey machine. All I have available at this time are the Osprey titles and Windsock Jasta 5 specials. Does anyone know of any other clear photos of this machine? I am not convinced that the colors used on the cover of the data file are the most accurate either. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dwayne

karrart · 21 July 2008, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deedoubleyou

....... The quandary right now is my lack of reference for the Rumey machine. All I have available at this time are the Osprey titles and Windsock Jasta 5 specials. Does anyone know of any other clear photos of this machine? I am not convinced that the colors used on the cover of the data file are the most accurate either. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Dwayne

The colors on the Datafile cover are as accurate as we could make them, given what is "known". The only clear close photo I've seen showing the Rumey "Demon head" is no 54 in the Datafile, also printed smaller in the Osprey book. In the printing process, some of the contrast was lost in the checkerboarding. I had a large, nicely balanced copy of this photo to work from- not a scan, print out or published ink-on-paper version, but a large photographic print. I examined this photo closely with a light behind it, which popped out some of the hidden detail, including the wing and fuselage checks.
Some things were guess work. I don't think we'll ever know for sure exactly how the wings were done- just checks in one color? Over standard camo?
The back-and-forth communicating among all the parties directly involved ( and some not directly involved!)on this project would fill a thick book!
Robert Karr
OLD BIRDS STAYING ALIVE - THE AVIATION ART OF ROBERT KARR

Deedoubleyou · 21 July 2008, 07:27 PM

Robert,

Thank you very much for writing back. I have admired your work for some time now, top drawer. I can imagine that the discussion was very animated, and knowing the passion that alot of folks have, quite contentious. My hats off to you for the cover art of those Datafiles and for all the hard work it took to produce something that needed to please quite a few. Outstanding work. It is my understanding at this point that the pictures from these publications are all that we have to draw from as reference for this enigmatic machine. It is a shame but then we must be grateful to have anything at all! If I may, in your observations made from your source material, how far forward of the Demon head did the checkerboard pattern extend to the nose of the fuselage and did the pattern go from the top all the way down to the bottom?

Many Thanks and Regards, Dwayne

karrart · 22 July 2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deedoubleyou

.... It is my understanding at this point that the pictures from these publications are all that we have to draw from as reference for this enigmatic machine. It is a shame but then we must be grateful to have anything at all! If I may, in your observations made from your source material, how far forward of the Demon head did the checkerboard pattern extend to the nose of the fuselage and did the pattern go from the top all the way down to the bottom?

Many Thanks and Regards, Dwayne

Firstly, thanks for the good words!
As you say- an enigmatic machine. It may be one of the more dramatically marked Jasta 5 airplanes, but also one of the least "visible" when it comes to extracting it's true scheme. There's the one big closeup photo and a few of the lineup shots where it's just hanging around in the background. The easiest thing about it is the demon head itself. But those darn checks and the colors. Sometimes it looks as if the overall fuselage was not the same overall color as most of the rest of Jasta 5. So many of them had that light gray fuselage- but not all, and I do wonder about Rumey's. Also, I now think the checks possibly extended several more rows forward, at least beyond the cockpit.....maybe! By playing around with the contrast settings in a hi-res scan of the photo in question, more checks seem to be popping out. The pattern does seem to to go all around from top to bottom.
If it seems like I'm hemming and hawing around, I guess I am! I really did only have the big photo and those few lineup pics to squint into, and a few text references concerning Jasta 5 colors in general. I was also sent some simple not-to-scale line drawings, nothing more than overall guides. It makes me want to scream out to the cosmos "Hey vonHipple- why didn't you tell Peter Gray about THIS airplane?"
Thanks for causing me to revisit this work and forgive me for probably raising more questions than I answered!That cover was finished November29, 2003 so it's been a trip through time!
Robert Karr
OLD BIRDS STAYING ALIVE - THE AVIATION ART OF ROBERT KARR

Alien · 22 July 2008, 01:47 PM

My brother-in-law visited the Technik Museum Speyer in October of 2007, which is in the buildings that housed the Pfalz factory. While there he took this pic of a model display that looks a lot like what you're doing. Unfortunately the angle won't give you any help, but maybe you can scout around for someone who knows more about this display.

Deedoubleyou · 27 July 2008, 01:40 PM

Does anyone know if it was possible to have Albatros DV aircraft at the front during July of 1917 with their wings covered in five color lozenge?

Dwayne

Cruz Verras · 30 July 2008, 06:33 AM

Hi lads
I'm a newcomer here.Anybody shares the thought that those checks
might be in the Jasta colours of green and red.

Alien · 30 July 2008, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deedoubleyou

Does anyone know if it was possible to have Albatros DV aircraft at the front during July of 1917 with their wings covered in five color lozenge?
Dwayne

See the post linked to below. The short version is that in that post Dan-San Abbott says "Albatros did not start covering with printed fabric until after mid July 1917" which would make it unlikely for any to reach the front before August. Please correct me if I'm wrong, Dan-San (and thanks for all the good info).
Red Brown on German aircraft camouflage

Dan_San_Abbott · 1 August 2008, 10:30 AM

Deedoubleyou:
I just got off the phone with Russ, so I have become involved. I don't think that Rumey's Alb.D.V was the wings covered with printed fabric. If this line-up photo was taken in July 1917, Next to Rumey is Oblt. Richard Flashar's Alb.D.V 2065/17. I would believe that this machine arrived at Jasta 5 in June 1917 as did the other Alb.D.V aircraft ,and all within the same serial number range. The Aircraft with printed fabric commenced with alb.D.V 2225/17. Albatros was building about 175 to 200 Alb.D.V per month. The first orderfor 200, s/n D.1000 to D.1199/17 issued in April 1917, first deliveries would start about 60 days later, so, at best, D.V 1000/17 to 1199/17 would be delivered during June.1917. Albatros attained a rate of 270 aircraft per month by 1918.
The second order, issued in May 1917, for 400, s/n D. 1962 to D.2361/17, and at best, or so, would be delivered D.1962 to about D.1962 to D.2161/17 would be delivered. Oblt. Flashar received D.2065/17 around the 7-9 July 1917. The first Alb.D.V 2225/17 at best would have arrived at the front in early August 1917. This would eliminate Rumey's Alb.D.V being covered with printed fabric. (Unless those photos were taken in August 1917??)
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Deedoubleyou · 2 August 2008, 04:15 PM

Dan-San,

Thank you very much for weighing in on this matter as your consul means a great deal. Looks like Robert and Glen came up with an excellent solution to the patterning on the wings. I'd like to thank everyone who weighed in on this matter and I appreciate the input to help solve this mystery. Maybe it is better that it stays unsolved as it will provide future generations with the inspiration to take it on and keep this era alive.

Regards, Dwayne