The Aerodrome Home Page
Aces of WWI
Aircraft of WWI
Books and Film
The Aerodrome Forum
Sign the Guestbook
Help
Links to Other Sites
Medals and Decorations
The Aerodrome News
Search The Aerodrome
Today in History
The Aerodrome Forum

Go Back   The Aerodrome Forum > WWI Aviation > Aircraft > Camouflage and Markings


Camouflage and Markings Topics related to the camouflage and markings of WWI aircraft



Welcome to The Aerodrome Forum, an online community where you can discuss WWI aviation with thousands of other members from around the world. To gain full access to the Forum you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
  • Post messages and search the Forum

  • Privately communicate with other members

  • Participate in live chat sessions other members

  • View images by talented aviation artists in our Gallery

  • Buy, sell or trade items in our Classified Ads
All this and much more is available to you absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12 August 2008, 12:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Observer
 
Kanone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
 
Change from Iron Cross to Balkenkreuz?

It has always mystified me why Imperial Germany switched from marking aircraft with the Iron Cross to the Balkenkreuz (with the straight arms instead of curved arms). The change is noted in books as taking place around April of 1918 or so, but they don't give a reason for the change. I haven't found it by googling either.

What was the official reason behind this rather dramatic visible change?

Thanks...
Kanone is offline  
Sponsored Links
Old 12 August 2008, 01:18 PM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 1997
Posts: 673
 
See German section of National Markings.
Scott is offline  
Old 12 August 2008, 03:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
Observer
 
Kanone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
 
Thanks Scott,

I hadn't stumbled into that section yet, and it contains a whole lot of other info I'll have to read.

As to the switch it says this:

quote: "The Eisernes Kreuz is replaced by the Balkenkreuz or beam cross, allegedly due to the curved shape of the Eisernes Kreuz being too easily mistakable for an Allied cockade."

It's interesting that the words "allegedly due" are used, as if, perhaps, there is some doubt whether this is the correct reason. This question must be examined in detail somewhere as the field of WWI aircraft appears to be very well researched and studied by interested and dedicated persons.
Kanone is offline  
Old 16 August 2008, 10:07 AM   #4 (permalink)
Forum Ace of Aces
 
Dan_San_Abbott's Avatar
Contributor
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Ceres, California
Posts: 7,089
 

My Gallery
Precise statement.

Kanone:
In the IdFlieg directive of 20 March 1918 to all manufacturers state in the first sentence, translated to English:
"To improve the recognition of our aircraft, the following is ordered:"-...
IN PARAGRAPH 2., second sentence: "This alteration is to be carried out by 15 April 1918."
The closing sentence reads: "Order 41390 is to be speedily executed."
Very clear, the cause and the action. This directive supplements the directive of 17 March 1918. I'll find this directive and get the precise statement.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Dan_San_Abbott is offline  
Old 16 August 2008, 11:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
tcrean7828's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Posts: 1,200
 
Talking

Mates,
Thanks for the info Dan-San, always wondered about that little point myself. Will await further info from your infinate resources.

Thanks for sharing.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom
tcrean7828 is offline  
Old 16 August 2008, 01:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
Observer
 
Kanone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott View Post
Kanone:
In the IdFlieg directive of 20 March 1918 to all manufacturers state in the first sentence, translated to English:
"To improve the recognition of our aircraft, the following is ordered:"-...
IN PARAGRAPH 2., second sentence: "This alteration is to be carried out by 15 April 1918."
The closing sentence reads: "Order 41390 is to be speedily executed."
Very clear, the cause and the action. This directive supplements the directive of 17 March 1918. I'll find this directive and get the precise statement.
Blue skies,
Dan-San
Yes, clear indeed, and good info about something that has long mystified me!

On the face of it the directive seems counter-intuitive, as the Iron Cross type is more dramatic and striking a symbol than the Balkankreuz. Yet given the addition of distance, unusual atmospheric conditions, and the frenzy of battle, it does seem possible that the flared ends of the Iron Cross could be perceived incorrectly as an allied roundel as alluded to in an earlier post. It would be good to see the full directive, in both English and in German if possible, and see the German names for both of the cross-types in original usage.

Thanks!

PS: looks like I spelled Balkan wrong in the OP and title. Sorry about that!

Last edited by Kanone; 16 August 2008 at 01:53 PM.
Kanone is offline  
Old 16 August 2008, 03:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 534
I really wonder when the Balkankreuz will be exterminated....maybe it will need a meteor...

The correct spelling is Balkenkreuz. This is the correkt heraldic name for a straight cross.

Balkankreuz means ' Balkan's Cross'. It has nothing to do with the Balkans......


Dan-San, I think the real reason behind the order was speeding up the production. Painting the Iron Cross will take more time, wouldn't it?

H.
Hans is offline  
Old 16 August 2008, 07:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
Scout Pilot
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Woodland Hills, CA, USA
Posts: 369
 
Hans,

Your argument seems to make sense. The Iron Cross would require more time (and paint), but if that were the reason, why require changes in the field?

Jasta commanders must have loved these changes. I am sure that their ground crews had better things to do than repaint crosses.

Steve
SCMc is offline  
Old 17 August 2008, 06:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
Forum Ace
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 534
Quote:
why require changes in the field?
I think it would not be very useful to show two different signs. If the straight one would be the one new pilots where used to, then the danger of mixing the 'round' one with a roundel would be real. That's exactly the reason what IdFlieg claimed to be the reason.

H
Hans is offline  
Old 17 August 2008, 09:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
Observer
 
Kanone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 12
 
Thanks Hans,

I can't seem to find a definitive answer on the origin of the name, or the spelling either, altho I think you're probably right. But it is commonly used both ways. Somewhere the meaning and correct spelling must be explained in detail but googling around I didn't find it. Do you have more information on where the name derives from? That was my next question.

In my original post I used the Osprey "Dr.I Aces" spelling Balkenkreuz, but online the "a" spelling seems more common as "Balkan Cross." Seems like the matter is very confused.

If it's "balken" what does that word mean? It doesn't show up in the dictionary.
Kanone is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0
Copyright ©1997 - 2008 The Aerodrome