Siemens-Schuckert R.VIII markings questions.

Lucien Harpress · 24 September 2008, 07:53 PM

Two things first off- I'm a recent dabbler in WWI subjects (WWII being my era of choice), and my post count proves it. However, every now and then I get a hankering to build a biplane, and it's struck again. I'm attempting a scratchbuild of a 1/72 SSW R.VIII. This of course brings up the subject of markings.

Which leads my to my second issue- I've seen discussions on lozenge camo get way over my head really quickly. For a newbie's sake, try to keep this simple, if you could?

Finally, for all questions it would be best to refer to these photos:

Anyhoo, on to my questions. I DO own the book "The German Giants", so let's get this out of the way. Due to this, I know that the overall color is night bomber lozenge fabric. This was used on the tail section and most likely the tops of the wings. This isn't a problem. The problems are as follows:

The metal sections painted to "match" the fabric on the forward fuselage. The colors are obviously different, and so is the pattern. Are they the same colors, only lighter? I'm assuming so, but I'm not sure.
Underside colors. Night bombers to the best of my knowledge were overall nigh-bomber lozenge. However, "The German Giants" states the undersides of the SSW R.VIII were "a light color": wonderfully vaigue. Is the book correct, or in error? If this is correct, what would this color be?
In the first photo, the undersides show some unique shiny areas. Are these areas clear Cellon, ala bombardier panels, or shiny metal? Or something completely different?

Ideally would I would like to get from this are some visual examples of three areas- night bomber lozenge fabric, night bomber lozenge paint, and this mythical, "light color" used (or not) for wing undersides.

Thank you everyone beforehand for your help and formulations.

Dan_San_Abbott · 25 September 2008, 07:41 PM

Hi Lucien:
You picked a beaut to build. Even in 1/72 scale it will be big!
First of all the fuselage forward of the door on the side is covered with most likely, plywood or a combination of aluminum sheet and plywood?? The forward part is hand painted in five colors, from the tonal valuesmy guess from darkest to lightest, ,is: dark blue(prussian blue), dark violet, dull green, dull blue and dark blonde. The rear part of the fuselage, from the door, aft, five color, night pattern, (1918) The fabric panel is applied and joined vertically, enlarge the photo and you can see what I am saying. The pattern repeats vertically. The colors are very dark: Greyish blue , dark violet, dark blue, prussian blue and blackish blue,
Keep us posted.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

StephenLawson · 25 September 2008, 08:18 PM

Lucien! Over from Finescale I see. Excellent to see you here. Dan is a good man to take notes from. You won't be disappointed.

Lucien Harpress · 25 September 2008, 08:32 PM

Thanks for the help, sir. From browsing around you seem to be the definitive source for color information.

The fabric I'm not really worried about. As far as I know decals exist that will get me close enough. For the painted portions, however, your descriptions are somewhat vague (to me, anyway). Is there any way to show color chips that are close to the painted colors you mention, or at least include specific codes that I can use to find them (and what those codes mean)?

As I said, I know next to nothing about WWI lozenge camo. So when you say "dark violet", I really don't know what that is exactly!

I figure I'm probably going to have to hand-paint these sections anyway (ug), and something I can visually see to at least get close to would really help.

I'm assuming that the fabric on the rear fuselage carried up into the wings as well, yes? Also, was this used on the BOTTOM of the wings, too? Or was it that mythical "light color" mentioned in "The German Giants?"

Finally (to give a little back), here's a preview of the rough balsa fuselage core next to a Bf 109.

I've started the skinning process tonight. As soon as I get some more done, I start up a thread in the Models section.

Again, thank you for the help.

(Edit: Wait a moment. I think I may have found something at least close. I get the feeling that I'm still going to have to handpaint the fuselage, but at least now I think I have a visual reference of what colors I need to use.)

Dan_San_Abbott · 27 September 2008, 11:05 AM

Lucien:
I just check the photo on page 202 of "German Giants", 2cd Edition. Yes, the wings are covered with the five color 1918 night pattern, top and bottom surfaces. The fabric was applied chordwise. See the photo on page 204, the interplane struts are also covered with the night pattern fabric.
All night bomber were covered on all surfaces with the night 5 color fabric.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Lucien Harpress · 27 September 2008, 02:00 PM

Yeah, I noticed the lozenge covering the struts as well. It's something I'm not aware of seeing on other aircraft of this era. Maybe they just weren't large enough to require them? Who knows.

I'm still not 100% positive what the shiny areas underneath should be- I'm leaning towards metal plates (as metal was used in the forward fuselage). I'll have to check on the cutaway supplied by "The German Giants" to see what's right inside there. I'm imagining a bomb bay, but again, I'm not 100% sure.

Dan_San_Abbott · 27 September 2008, 08:19 PM

Lucien:
While the cutaway drawing on page 201 does not show bombs , it would be reasonable to assume the area under the center and rear engines in the engine room would have been the bomb bay have been the bomb storage area. This is within the center of gravity where all the disposable loads where placed, fuel in the lower wing center sections, etc. \the two photographs you have displayed in your post seem to confirm firm this assumption.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Lucien Harpress · 27 September 2008, 08:42 PM

Thanks again.

Now that I'm able to actually post up some links, here's the site that I got the images from, along with many more.

CHECK IT OUT HERE

What do you make of the herringbone pattern on the rear fuselage? Was the fabric applied this way, or is it simply picking up the lines of the structure underneath it (visible in the few construction photos posted in the link)?

One or two final bits of business. I've done my best to find a close match to the lozenge colors you mentioned for the forward fuselage. I was able to find visual references for all of them but dark violet. However, I came across this image, and the lozenge seemed to match the colors you provided. Is it close to what you had in mind?

http://mwmiller.theaerodrome.com/alb...63/lepien6.jpg

And lastly: rib tapes. What color would these be?

Thanks again for all your help. Trust me when I say I think I've run out of questions!