Otto Klssenberth Sopwith Camel Markings

[Dan Sciacca]

Hi All,

I am looking for some information on a captured Sopwith Camel Flown by Otto Kissenberth he got his 20th Kill with this plane against a SE5 I am looking for some color markings or any info on this plane for a rc project I am working on, I have a black n white picture of the plane. I have to figure out how to post it,

Thanks,

Dan Sciacca,

[Dan Sciacca]

I attached the picture

[Gregvan]

Dear Dan,

You should try this nice article first:

Captured Camel

[Dan Sciacca]

Thanks Greg,

that is a cool artical, it will be a Nice color scheme to do for RC,

Thanks again,

Dan

[Dan Sciacca]

Hi all,

I found the info I needed on Ottos, Camel a Gentelman named Jim Kiger he has 3 and 5 views of many WW1 planes and color chips. he can be reached at replicacraft.us.fm I have not posted enough to make a link for you just have to put the www before he has some brillant Plans any scale to full to RC a very cool site,

Thanks for your help,

Dan

[RussGannon]

To anyone interested

The Kissenberth Camel has always been of interest to me. But some points of detail - Kissenberth's claim for an SE5 on 16 May 18 is dubious to say the least. The said Js 23 fight was clearly with B&C Flights 64 Sqn which resulted in Lt Reece making a forced landing at 59 Sqn due to damage during a dive. There was also a 'confirmed' (sic) claim by Ltn Gossner in same action. 64 Sqn were not backwards in claiming either, with a total of 9 claims - 6 however were OOC with the other three comprising two crashed & one in pieces (by Capt Burge). The last however would look to reflect Ltn H Kullmar of Js 23 who was kia at the location of the fight.

Similarly Lt Campbell was downed by ground fire on 10 Mar 18 - Js 11's Vfw Scholz is not in the mix. 'King of Combat' has another shot of this Camel in German hands - including a squad of German infantry - maybe the guys who brought it down?

I can see the reasoning behind Hopwell's 8 Naval Camel - however I find it hard to accept that a Camel FTL by a 6 Armee pilot in 6 Armee sector would find its way to 17 Armee pilot??? If anything it has to be a Camel that came down in the 17 Armee area of operations. But neither Js 23 or Jgdgp 8 were particularly terrorising the RAF and none of their meagre claims yield up any FTL Camel. Allowing for cross pollinating of Camels - ie the said 3 Naval Camel damaged and then returned to another 1 Brigade Camel unit, then one might look towards B2395 of 4 AFC that was seen FTL SE of Arras on 28 Mar 18 during ground straffing operations - its pilot Lt Feez WIA POW - shot down I believe by Ltn Billik of Js 52 (6 Armee) who was opperating in the 17 Armee A/O on this date in support of 17 Armee's push on Arras. Which would suggest that if the Camel was recovered then it would have been recovered by AFP 17 and unlikely to have been sent onto AFP 6.

The particular push was the reason why 3 Naval abandoned Mont St Eloi a/d on 28 Mar 18 moving further back to Treizennes. However 17 Armee push was halted with little ground gain, and in no way came close to St Eloi which would cancel out a Le Gorgue scenario. One of the few gains was east half of Fampoux where Billik made his claim.

Buit this resolution would require confirmation that B2395 at one time servered with 3 Naval - I do not have that info.

Cheers to all

Russ

[Dan Sciacca]

Russ,

thanks so much for the information, it is very helpfull, it sheds some lite on the subject.


Thanks again,

Dan

[Gregvan]

Dear Dan,

I doubt this will be of help, but way back in 1980 I did a very crude drawing of Kissenberth's Camel for an article I did on Jasta 23/23b in the old Cross & Cockade Journal. Here 'tis. I'm sure that most of the fuselage and wing upper surfaces remained in their British factory PC 10 or PC 12 finish. The black and white tail stripes were unit markings for Jasta 23b. Ray Rimell also did a very nice color profile in an old issue of Windsock, but that's copyrighted. I'm still not sure of the cowling color, but I'd bet it was blue.


Maybe more helpful is this rarely-seen 'other' photo of the same Camel - though it's a bit blurred. It does show that the black/white tail stripes extended on to the tailplane.


Here's another photo showing the Camel from the front. Note the form of the crosses on the lower wing undersides, and the painting of the cowling:


Hope this helps.

Greg

[Gregvan]

Russ,

According to The Camel File, Camel B2395 was delivered to 3 Sqn RFC on 7.10.17. On 11.10.17 it suffered engine failure on takeoff, and was badly crashed by Capt. R A James, who was slightly injured. It went to No. 2 AD, then Repair Park 2 ASD. After repair it went to No. 46 Sqdn on 12.11.17, then was crashed near Bertincourt by Lt R E Dusgate on 22.11.17. Following another trip to Repair Park 2 ASD on 22.11.17, it finally wound up at No. 4 Sqdn AFC (coded "8") on 21.2.18. It failed to return from a low bombing patrol which started at 0930 hrs, and was last seen near Oppy at 1000 hrs on 28 March 1918, with Lt C M Feex PoW as you state. Feez was probably claimed by Paul Billik of Jasta 52 at Etaing.

It doesn't seem like B2395 is our bird.

Greg

[Dan Sciacca]

Hi Greg,

The Pictures are Excellent the drawing you did is Great, this will help me alot


Thanks again,

Dan