Bristol F2b E2181 - need help

Russell Smith · 29 October 2008, 04:45 PM

Hi folks. I need some help identifying markings of Bristol F2b E'2181. It served with 20Sq and was occasionally flown by Capt. H.P Lale. It also carried twin Vickers rather than a single.

20Sq's markings consisted of the letters "A" through "S" located approximately below the pilot's cockpit. I need to know what letter E2181 carried. Does anyone have that information at hand or might be able to point me in the right direction?

Russ

'14-'18aviationcollector · 8 November 2008, 01:22 AM

I have a few photos of 20 Squadron. The only photos I can find (I could easily have many more) show what looks like an RE8 with the large fin used in training squadrons, and an FE2. I did find a photo of Capt HP Lale, which I will attach. Interestingly, there is another section of photos in my collection entitled 20 Training Squadron. There are photographs of DH6's and RE8's. I am sure I would have a book or some books somewhere which would explain, but would there have been a 20 Squadron serving in action as well as a 20 Training Squadron? I would have thought that 20 Squadron would be one or the other, and that it is a training Squadron, so I am a bit confused about the other 20 Squadron in the other section of my photos, which is basically set out as RFC Squadrons in numerical order.

I just took some photos, and they are very blurry! I am sorry about the poor quality, but here is a photo of Capt

Horace Percy Lale.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Best wishes, David.

Russell Smith · 9 November 2008, 04:40 AM

Thanks for the information 14-18. The information that I have states that 20Sq arrived in France on Jan. 23, 1916. They were initially outfitted with FEEs before being re-equipped with Biffs in August of 1917/ There is no mention of DH6s or RE8s, so I can't explain the 20 Sq/20training discrepancy.

Russ

Gregvan · 9 November 2008, 11:35 AM

Russ,

I'm pretty sure that you have all the same sources on Brisfits that I do. As you no doubt know, E2181 was used for Lale's victories:

# 14 - 3 Sep 1918 - D.VII with obs 2/Lt. Ralphs

#16 and 17 on 6 Sept. and # 18 on 7 Sept. - all Fokker D.VIIs with obs. Lt. Edwards.

As you say, by that time No. 20 Sqdn bore only individual letters 'neath the pilot's cockpit, but I don't know of any letter for E2181. As no less than L.A. Rogers says, "In view of the time the Squadron was in France it is suprising that the photographic record of the Bristol Fighter period is so disappointingly meagre."

Looks like you might have to compose your painting (?) so that the area beneath the pilot's cockpit is obscured in some way.

I was surprised to see your note that this machine carried "twin Vickers", as I cannot recall seeing or hearing about any such installation. Are you sure you didn't mean twin Lewises for the observer?

Greg

Russell Smith · 9 November 2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregvan

I was surprised to see your note that this machine carried "twin Vickers", as I cannot recall seeing or hearing about any such installation. Are you sure you didn't mean twin Lewises for the observer?

Opps. You're correct about that, Greg. It carried twin Lewises. I'm so used to following "twin" with "vickers" that it just naturally came out that way.

The composition is actually already been determined, so i think I'm just going to have to choose a random letter. After all, it seems unlikely that anyone will be able to produce a photo that could prove me wrong.

Russ