light blue nieuport

[JOHNNY ACE]

i recently picked up an eduard kit[nieuport 11&17 in one box.]one of the markings for the 11 was an overall light blue for guynemer.i have never seen this before-is this correct?thanks in advance for any help.

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour Johnny Ace

Indeed some believe that Nieuport 11 N 836 was covered overall with dope of a blue grey shade ... a depiction may be found in Guynemer Les Avions D'Un As by Klaeylé and Osché with Cony. The profile illustration, by Jamois, in the book indicates that flying surfaces, fuselage and wheel discs were in "bleu horizon". The legend LE VIEUX CHARLES appears on the fuselage (beneath and behind the cockpit) in black and on the cowl (above the motor) in blue. That stated I do not believe the evidence that the aircraft was blue is conclusive ...

I wonder if Bruno is about to add an opinion ...

Salut!
Kirk

[Froggy]

Hello Johnny,Bonjour Kirk

Same as Kirk I never had the evidence that the Nieuport 11 N836 (destroyed in 13 march 1916 Guynemer wounded) was in blue colour (either light blue or
bleu horizon)
For me this plane was finished in the traditional dopen linen colour

here is a photo of the Nieuport N 836
http://www.earlyaviator.com/archive/...er_Nieup11.jpg

and here this interesting thread

Storks

Cordialement
Bruno

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Bonjour mes amis

Yes, on March 13, 1916,Guynemer was was seriously wounded during a combat with an L.V.G. type, two bullets in the left arm, face and scalp cut by fragments, and managed to land when on the verge of losing consciousness. Like Guynemer, however, N 836 was able to return to service though, ultimately the aircraft was destroyed when struck on the ground by a Caudron G-4.

As for the colour of the particular Nieuport 11, I would be inclined to apply the blue grey shade simply for aesthetic reasons! That stated I do not think the actual shade is known with absolute certainty so the decision is yours Johnny Ace ...

Salut!
Kirk

[Froggy]

Hello Kirk

In the book 'Carré D'as' by Jacques Mortane , Guynemer himself give a description of this combat when he was hurt (13 march)


Sorry In french:

"Aussi, le lendemain-c'était un 13, mais un aviateur ne peut guère s'attarder a ces superstitions,je partis avec la ferme volonté d'en descendre au moins deux, puisqu'il y en avait tant dans le ciel, de verdun.Je commence par mettre en fuite un groupe d'appareils de reconnaissance.Je ne peux pas les rejoindre-Tant Pis.En revenant j'avise deux avions arrivant face a face.les voila ceux que je désire abattre!Je me précipite, j'en gagne un de vitesse, me place au dessous, en arrière, un peu de coté, puis tire sept balles a bout portant.Il tourbillonne et s'en va avec du plomb dans l'aile, mais je ne puis guère m'occuper de son sort.
A l'autre...celui-ci est sans doute un as.il n'a pas peur et tire tout ce qu'il peut.mon avion en sait quelque chose.Je veux me placer sous son fuselage pour le canarder. Malheureusement,j'apprécie mal sa vitesse, supérieure a la sienne et je le depasse.Vite il profite de la situation et m'envoie une rafale me fusillant a loisir.mon, capot criblé de balles vole en eclat.Un ricochet m'entaille la joue et le nez et deux balles me traversent le bras gauche. J'ai encore un éclat a la machoire.Les médecins m'ont dit qu'il valait mieux le laisser. C'est un souvenir...pourvu que cela soit un fétiche et qu'il permette de me venger.En un mot un parfait arrosage!
je saigne abondamment et souffre beaucoup.il s'agit de ne pas tomber dans les pommes. J'examine en hâte la situation. je me laisse choir en plongeant de 300 mètres pour faire croire que je suis descendu.tan dis qu'un autre vient a l'aide de mon rival pour tenter de me finir.je me redresse et en ne pilotant que d'une main, je parviens regagner nos lignes et me pose a Brocourt"
Georges Guynemer

Well ... I believe that it is the longest text in French never written on theaerodrome forum

Cordialement
Bruno

[Kirk R. Lowry]

Merci beaucoup Bruno!

Tu sais que mon français est vraiment mauvais ... I will print that and read the passage with the dictionary in hand ...

Salut mon ami!
Kirk

[StephenLawson]

There is some historical evidence that Chapman of the Lafayeete Escadrille was lost flying a"new machine" a Nieuport single seat fighter that was overpainted light blue. There are several threads on the subject.

See here.

[Gregvan]

Hello,

I agree with the light 'horizon blue' description for at least some Nieuport 11s. Klaelyé and Osché are very meticulous historians, and they present some compelling evidence in their book. Furthermore, the information presented by Gilles in the thread referenced above is pretty compelling:

"The Blue Nieuports were witnessed by Guynemer himself.
Here is what he wrote about his 6th victory (3 february 1916) :
Quote:
Cet avion avait les ailes de la teinte jaune habituelle, le fuselage de la teinte bleue du N. et semblait profilé comme celui des monocoques

"This plane had the usual yellow tinted wings, a blue fuselage like the N.(Nieuport), and seemed streamlined like those of monocoques (Morane "Bullet")"
So it seems that blue Nieuports were not uncommon.
The Nieuport 11 N836 he used in march 1916 is believed to be light blue. There was no tapes, the aircraft was one single color overall and was slightly darker than other Nieuport in the same picture."

[JOHNNY ACE]

thanks all for taking the time to answer.i appreciate the help.

[davecww1]

I am thinking the light blue might be the correct color for the Nieuport 16 N.939 flown by Brocard, Guiguet and Dorme of N.3 in 1916. The following photo is from the book Rene Dorme et Joseph Guiguet by Marc Chassard. He has a profile in the book showing it overall aluminum but there are a few things that make me think it is more likely light blue. First, the fuselage is a perfect match to the reinforcing tapes on the V struts, so I would guess they are the same color. But where the V strut attaches to the wing there is a lighter color for the streamlined fairing between the strut, so I would think that part was unpainted aluminum, while the wing looks darker. There are no tapes bordering the wing as on earlier CDL Nieuports, so this should be clear evidence that the entire aircraft is painted the same overall color, with the exception of the cowl which looks like dirty metal, and the upper forward fuselage deck is a darker color. Not sure what color but it is definately not the shadow since it follows the stitched panel line exactly. So it is either light blue or aluminum paint overall, not sure how to prove it either way unless someone knows what serial numbers began the aluminum dope, which I always thought came later during Nieuport 17 production. I would vote for the light blue but would like to know if anyone knows a color for this blue? Horizon blue is a darker blue, kind of like US intermediate blue used on WW2 Navy aircraft, and I would think Sky blue would be more like a baby blue.
Any more ideas let me know.
Thanks,
Dave