FI 103/17: A Color Study

FOKKERJ · 20 December 2008, 06:50 AM

Hi Tim,

I like your interpretation of F.103/17, it agrees with the "Silvery" scheme that so many of us have grown up with and makes sense.
Good job!

MERRY CHRISTMAS, FOKKERJ

Laserlloyd · 20 December 2008, 07:12 AM

Hi Tim:

I was looking at one of the photos that Taz sent me and it must be a earlier photo be cause it looks cleaner. I have his other photos on a different drive he sent me and have to hook up that drive to look at all of them. What a difference in the markings in such a short time.

Here's the photo that I was looking at:

Lloyd.

Tim West · 20 December 2008, 07:24 PM

Tom and Lloyd,
yep those photos have a lot of detail...one of those I used for the comps shown above. That's one thing I have always thought about the FI and even the DR.I and other WWI planes, is that they looked beat rather quickly. War is prolly pretty rough on a paint job.

Tom,
I want to touch up a few things but will send the images soon. Oh, and thanks for the additional info on the repairs. =)

tengew,
Thats a neat film for sure. There are stills in the OTF article that Terry and Aaron wrote. Yep, looks green.

Tim West · 20 December 2008, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOKKERJ

Hi Tim,

I like your interpretation of F.103/17, it agrees with the "Silvery" scheme that so many of us have grown up with and makes sense.
Good job!

MERRY CHRISTMAS, FOKKERJ

Thank you,
I was hoping someone would mention that =D

Lol, thanks for noticing!

flypaper · 21 December 2008, 04:09 PM

Hello Tim, great work with the CAD "paintings". I have followed this thread a bit and like others who were around awhile have also heard of the Silver Blue finish in fact I think I did a Revell DrI 1/72 back in the day. Well to move on

I was wondering if you ever read the the Interview of Voss's mechanic Gefreiter Karl Timm, which appearded in the Autum 1961 issue of Cross and Cockade? He served with Voss from almost the start of his carrier (Voss) until his death.

I have no "burning" interest in Voss a/c but it seems that since I started to follow this thread I've been tripping over photos of 103 and now this interview.

I have attached one pic, I'm sure you know it, but, it does show Herr Timm as the head poking up above the cowl.

Flypaper

tcrean7828 · 21 December 2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flypaper

Hello Tim, great work with the CAD "paintings". I have followed this thread a bit and like others who were around awhile have also heard of the Silver Blue finish in fact I think I did a Revell DrI 1/72 back in the day. Well to move on

I was wondering if you ever read the the Interview of Voss's mechanic Gefreiter Karl Timm, which appearded in the Autum 1961 issue of Cross and Cockade? He served with Voss from almost the start of his carrier (Voss) until his death.

I have no "burning" interest in Voss a/c but it seems that since I started to follow this thread I've been tripping over photos of 103 and now this interview.

I have attached one pic, I'm sure you know it, but, it does show Herr Timm as the head poking up above the cowl.

Flypaper

Mate,

Read the review and thought it was pretty good. Wish there was a bit more info on both of them as to what they did after both wars.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Tim West · 22 December 2008, 02:00 AM

Flypaper,

Thanks for having a look. I know its sort of old news here but I had to this stuff sitting around and thought I should share =)

About the silver or silver blue....I still don't think 103 was blue overall..or silver....its a play on color and light. The swatches I showed have no silver or blue in it. But the bleached white linen under does give the appearance of a silver/grey look.

Tom,
Im sort of surprised you're having trouble finding post war info about them. With such a interest in this subject over the years, you'd think someone would have noted something.

flypaper · 22 December 2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim West

Flypaper,

Thanks for having a look. I know its sort of old news here but I had to this stuff sitting around and thought I should share =)

About the silver or silver blue....I still don't it 103 was blue overall..or silver....its a play on color and light. The swatches I showed have no silver or blue in it. But the bleached white linen under does give the appearance of a silver/grey look.

Tom,
Im sort of surprised you're having trouble finding post war info about them. With such a interest in this subject over the years, you'd think someone would have noted something.

If I may quote Herr Timm's interview from Cross and Cockade 1961. By the way Herr Timm was the mechanic who painted the various insignia on Voss's Albatross.

Herr Timm states the that 103 was colored Grey, the forward part of the fuselage and cowl were a "very dark grey", a grey Herr Timm referred to as "earth grey", aft of the cockpit and on the tail unit it was "silver grey". The undersides were "light blue" as were the struts, the top surfaces of the wings were streaked in various shades of "dark and light grey". He goes on to say that the castor oil used was of a very low quality and he had to constantly scrape the fuselage of large amounts of the semi-solid deposits of castor oil. The oil soaked into the forward part of the fuselage and and dirt and dust stuck to it and made the machine extremely dirty in a short time. He also goes on to say that no further painting was done to the fuselage and the plane was flown in the scheme it was delivered in.

Again from Cross & Cockade Vol.2 #3 Autumn 1961, interview of Timm by Alex Imrie.

Very interesting read about some one who was "on the ground"

Flypaper

Tim West · 22 December 2008, 12:40 PM

Flypaper,

That's an old read here. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Besides a few points, I think that my take is pretty close to Mr.Timm's account.

One thing I have always thought about first hand accounts......decades after the fact....that memories fade and things get embellished a bit. Like, if I remember correctly, Mr.Timm....didn't recall the kite face, yet states the plane was flown as delivered.

Not that these accounts aren't extremely important to telling the history but they arent always of complete fact or recollection. They provide yet a piece to the many puzzles that surround the colors of WWI aeroplanes.

Hmm, what color is "earth grey" anyhow

flypaper · 22 December 2008, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim West

Flypaper,

That's an old read here. I'm not sure what you're getting at. Besides a few points, I think that my take is pretty close to Mr.Timm's account.

One thing I have always thought about first hand accounts......decades after the fact....that memories fade and things get embellished a bit. Like, if I remember correctly, Mr.Timm....didn't recall the kite face, yet states the plane was flown as delivered.

Not that these accounts aren't extremely important to telling the history but they arent always of complete fact or recollection. They provide yet a piece to the many puzzles that surround the colors of WWI aeroplanes.

Hmm, what color is "earth grey" anyhow

I'm not "getting" at anything, I just thought I it might be friendly and post some of Herr Timms quotes.

As for the kite face, he did not say he did not remeber it, only that he didnt do anymore painting on the airframe, which does not rule out someone else painting the kite face, perhaps Voss himself.

I would like to warn you about your thoughts on first hand accounts...Its been over 45 years since I worked on the T-28's at HQMCFS Wash DC and I can still tell you what color they were and werent....

Flypaper