Stropp Albatros DV

[StephenLawson]

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

". . . I'm not sure if all of your claims are completely verifiable. . ."

My apologies for not catching this post sooner. But to continue. If being here has taught me anything its. Don't say it if you can't back it up. So if I say something its based on research.

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

". . .I will say, even if its un-authentic, I do like thier color scheme. But a few other items you mentioned interest me. German field units often re-assembled aircraft to fly near the end of the war from left over or spare parts, so the fact they have wings from different craft of the same version on the same plane is really irrelevant. The fact that ALL of these particular parts never really flew together over the front is irrelevant as well, we know that many or even most of them did. . ."

If the colour scheme in the museum doesn't match the original then at least have the honesty to say so.

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

And lastly, the difference in cross insignia type, if its the same difference I'm refering to, was historically accurate to the change over in the styles used and some "transitional" craft had both. You may know this already, and are referring to another debated issue, but nonetheless it seems to me to be a pretty decent representation, perhaps not perfect, but pretty good.

If the truth is available why settle for pretty close?

Originally Posted by zoomzoom

". . .On that note, and regarding something else you mentioned, that being the Fokker DVII in the Smith's collection, what is with the wheels they have on that thing that look like they are borrowed from a medieval ox cart? i've seen pictures of the original and they are not the same. An ideas why this is? I've always been curious. ZZ.

Again someone's idea of being pretty close. They represent the temporary wheels that were used in the factory and repair shops. Until they can come up with the $ to install accurate versions. Though the temp wheels were not generally covered in leather. most often just plain wood.

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Gentlemen:
I have never seen in any of the documents or data that Germans assembled aircraft from spares. Of couse the use spare parts to put a machine back in service. The mixing of components, as on Stropp and the Fok. D.VII in the Musee in de l' Aire in Paris, was done by the French. They just collected what was necessary to make a complete aircraft. The U.S.Army people at McCook Field did the same thing. However, this mixing of components proved that all the components were inchangeable.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[iart7]

Dan-San,

By any chance, do you mean McCook Field located in Deep South Texas, which was used in WWII for training pilots and later for the FLY ERADICATION PROGRAM to get rid of screw-worm population? It might be called Moore Airfield near McCook, Texas (very isolated farmland). Or was that McCook Field somewhere else in Texas?

ANyone know? I'm interested because it recently had a bad fire and I used to drive by there all the time 20 years ago.

Art

[Laserlloyd]

McCook Field is in Dayton Ohio near Wright Patterson. McCook was the place were we did a lot of aviation research (NACA )and from what I remember turn in to NASA. McCook Field had received several German planes as part of the Armistice. I remember a couple of D.VII's Dr.I's on the list but no information on the Dr.I's. A lot of test were done on the D.VII's and there research is recorded, I believe in the NASA database.

Lloyd...

[gregorydquist]

After reading this thread I looked at my NASM Abl DV book and then an old Cross & Cockade Vol 23, #3 Autumn 1982 by Greg VanWyngarden.

And guess yet...there may be another difference between the NASM and the historical version; namely the stripe pattern on the tail.

Here is the NASM version (from the back cover of the book). Note that the fuselage and tail skid stripes are vertical.)

StroppDVTail NASM.jpgleft click on image to enlarge (I guess I should have made them larger -sorry )

Now here is the admittedly speculative (but keep reading) back cover painting of the same aircraft. (the Mauve on the magazine is more purple than my scan, but the other colors turned out fairly close - go figure)

StroppDVtail Jata46CCJV23N31982backcoverapinting.jpg

Note that what are vertical bands on the NASM are now also chevrons on this painting and result in a V shape showing on the top portion of the tail (and presumably on the bottom as well where stripes wrap around and meet each other).

Based on photo evidence in a previous C&CJ article that he cites (A. E. Ferko, CC&J, Vol 11, No 1 Spring 1970, pp 36-43, this chevron pattern appeared on Rudolf Matthaei's Pfalz DIIIa of Jasta 46 and in a time period when bothPfalz' and Alb DIII were used So Mr VanWyngarden raises the possibilty that the Stropp tail could/might/maybe have been painted the same. The following is a scan of his rendering of his interpretaion of the photos from his source material.

Jasta46tail.jpg

Is anyone aware of any further thoughts/resolution on this matter? From a purely aesthetic standpoint, the proposed pattern provides a more consistent visual result when viewed from the side.

Gregorydquist

[Gregvan]

Dear Gregorydquist,

First of all, the color painting on the back cover of that ancient C & C article was a very speculative painting of a Jasta 46 Albatros D.III (OAW), not the STROPP D.Va. It was based mostly on info from our pal Dan-San, plus some speculation on my part. It's a very long story about why that was the subject chosen for the back cover, which I won't go into.

The drawing I did of Matthaei's Pfalz D.IIIa tail was also pretty speculative, based on a couple of poor photos of the crashed and burned a/c.

I have no doubt that the tail stripes as rendered by the Smithsonian restoration team followed the exact pattern still visible on the surviving pieces. Whether they got the shade of the dark green and yellow right, I can't say. I also have no doubt that there were variations in how those stripes were applied to different aircraft - not surprising that they would be slightly different when applied to Albatros D.III (OAW), Albatros D.Va and Pfalz D.IIIa tail surfaces.

Please don't put too much faith in that ancient C & C article written by an inexperienced and none-too-knowledgeable author at the time!

Greg

[Dan_San_Abbott]

gregorydquist:
In 1976, I did a series of Jasta 46 drawings from photographs from that Peter M.Grosz was kind enough to loan. All theAlb.D.III machines were OAW built. They all had the green and yellow chevons on the upper and lower fins and tailplane. I have an additional drawing of Ltn. Oskar Hennrich's Pfalz D.IIIa which Jasta 46 was equipped with in June 1918. What Greg illustrated on Ltn.Rudolf Mattaei's Pfalz D.IIIa is the same as I have on Hennrich's D.IIIa.
Also in July 1918, Jasdta 46 had a few Alb.D.Va and they were marked as the Alb.D.III (OAW) aircraft.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

[StephenLawson]

As long as we are talking about Jasta 46w tail markings. There is an Alb. D.III OAW we have not discussed at well.