Need help on Dr.1 477/17 for MVR Aircraft Project

[Otis Glenn]

Originally Posted by Tim West

I mis read my source earlier...

In "Under the guns of the Red Baron" they have him flying a Albatross two seater CI, not CII's, once assigned to Kasta 8 commanded by Wilhelm Boelcke and later as you mentioned, Kagohl 2 arrives on the Eastern Front flying Albatross CIII's.

Others probably have more on this than I do and like you said there is already a Roland available.

Every book and refrence that I have been looking thru states he was flying an Albatros two seater. The C.I would make more sense than a C.III for that time period. However, period photos in A.E. Ferko's Richthofen book only show the Roland C.II and the LVG C.II on the field. Ferko also states that Kasta 8 did not receive the Rolands until may of that year, which would put them in the unit too late for the event Richthofen described. But How the heck could an LVG or an Albatros C overtake an Nieuport 11? GAH!

I'm trying to find a refrence that may list the aircraft in Kasta 8 and when they were equiped with a centain type. From this information I may be able to narrow down what he was actually flying. I'd hate to have to post another thread just to find info on this particular topic. I feel like I'm being enough of a nuisance already.

Originally Posted by Tim West

Oh..I dont think you'll get much flak for your 477/17 choice

Thanks for the vote of confidence!

Glenn

[JFM]

If MvR's autobiographical account is accurate, then presumably K8 (or KG2) had at least one Albatros C machine (a hack?) because MvR used the word "Albatros" ("mein guter Albatros ") when he told the tale of flying through his first thunderstorm between Metz and Mont.

[Otis Glenn]

Originally Posted by JFM

If MvR's autobiographical account is accurate, then presumably K8 (or KG2) had at least one Albatros C machine (a hack?) because MvR used the word "Albatros" ("mein guter Albatros ") when he told the tale of flying through his first thunderstorm between Metz and Mont.

Evidently the unit had upgraded early on from the Albatros B to the the Albatros C.I, according to one source I just read, and it was in one of these aircraft that Richthofen made his claim while he was just an observer. That was in 1915. They may have kept one around as a hack.

Maybe biographers confused the LVG with the Albatros and that is just one of those myths that has stuck? The two look similar. As you pointed out, it would not make any sense for an Albatros C or an LVG to overtake a Nieuport 11. The photos also show LVGs and Rolands only, no Albatroseses (is that a word? ) on the field. I would still like it to be the Roland if I can find more evidence to support it. I could do an Albatros C.III, but if it turns out to be an earlier version or an LVG I will have a major conversion project on my hands.

Glenn

[RAGIII]

Originally Posted by Tim West

Disclaimer: I do not support this scheme and it was only created for fun

Enjoy Mr Rag =P





One thing I notice after running this trough the orthro script is that the linen now appears to be too dark when compared to the photos or my bleached linen version of this plane.

Yet another nail in the coffin....IMHO of course

Thanks Tim, I do appreciate the notoriety as being the only one on this forum who seems to still be seeking to "qualify"that the Bleached linen thing is only opinion based on what is probably good research!

I find it most interesting looking back at the older threads that for several years those promoting CDL stated time after time that there was "NO DIFFERENCE" between the Prototype schemes and the Production models. After continued questioning by me, including quotes from Nowarra about Grey Linen etc. suddenly they were Unbleached, which explained the difference in appearance! If you doubt, re read those threads

I will always have "some" doubt about research that disclaims first hand accounts ( In this case a PRO report), that are discounted as poor report writing when they were written by soldiers whose JOB was to examine these wrecks.

Finally as for your newest color study , hell, I think it looks fine, only an artist would notice the subtle tonal differences! The real truth here, that which some do not admit, is that there is NO FACT, there is a lot of conjecture, and the tonal differences depending on the type of film, lighting, etc. can be deceiving.In the case of 477/17 , 102 &103/17 etc. NO ONE CAN TELL AN ARTIST/ MODELER they are WRONG in their choice!!!!!!!

Very MUCH MHO,
RAGIII

[JFM]

Originally Posted by Otis Glenn

Evidently the unit had upgraded early on from the Albatros B to the the Albatros C.I, according to one source I just read, and it was in one of these aircraft that Richthofen made his claim while he was just an observer. That was in 1915. They may have kept one around as a hack.
Glenn

You mean when he shot down the Farman while Osteroht was flying? That event occured while MvR was with BAO, not Kasta 8. He didn't join K8 until some six months later. MvR claimed two planes as an observer and one plane as a two-seater pilot, none credited.

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by Tim West

lol.....laugh out loud =D I find it's sometimes a good way to convey that I might be joking or that something is truly amusing.

j/k ... just kidding

hth.... hope that helps

tia.... thanks in advance

rofl ....rolling on the floor laughing

ruh roh .... my best Scooby Doo impersonation wraggy

Those are some of the ones I use here. There are dozens more. I picked up the habit back when I was a flight sim junkie before audio comms were available and texting was a craze. It made for quick communication with squadies whislt in flight.

Mate,
and in the old days of wireless and beginning radio or telegraph, they were also known as 'Q' or 'Z' signals and for military off the cuff types, as Falcon Codes. (I.e. ZBM-2 = please place compent operator on circuit;

SNAFU=situation normal all fubared up

FUBAR:Furbared up beyond all recognition

FALCON CODE #23=Has he lost his mind

CUL=see you later,

TTFN=Ta Ta for now,

ROGER=Understood,

WILCO=Understand and will comply,

OVER=Awaiting a response from your end,

OUT=no further transmission is required,

etc)

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

P.S. That is why when you watch a movie or tv show and some one shouts over the Mic: ROGER, WILCO,OVER,OUT, most of us pilots, air traffic controllers and others, get a giggle out of it and think Falcon code#23. As that lot makes no sense at all. tc

[Otis Glenn]

Originally Posted by JFM

You mean when he shot down the Farman while Osteroht was flying? That event occured while MvR was with BAO, not Kasta 8. He didn't join K8 until some six months later. MvR claimed two planes as an observer and one plane as a two-seater pilot, none credited.

Oops!!! You are right. I've been looking through so much stuff lately that I got my units mixed up. Thanks for the correction!

I'm really beginning to rule out the Albatros entirely at this point. The photos point towards the LVG or the Roland of the April 26 1916 claim. I still like your version of the Roland C.II for the event the best! Thanks for that!

Glenn