Greek Spad VII

[Angiolillo]

Bonjour monsieur!

Very useful info! Thanks a lot, and also for the indication of Moira B for Stavropoulos!

Actually I am working on two different products. A booster pack will include SPAD VII and I am now decided to put the victorious 1922 plane by Stavropolous. A box will include late Nieuports instead, so your notes are very useful for that too.
At the moment I only had a single profile coming from this very useful site that I just discovered (there is a SPAD VII scheme also):
Hellenic Air Force Models
The plane still has French cockades, but I will replace them with Greek ones.



Is it ok to give a Nieuport 24bis to sous-lieutenant Alexandros Zannas, in your opinion? True, it's just a game - but I like to make it believable, even if not 100% documented.

So this Greek-cockaded Ni24bis is it "Escadrille 531 - Aviation Militaire " or "Escadrille 531 - Ellinikos stratos"? Shall I translate "sous-lieutenant" into Greek or keep it in French? Sorry for my naive questions... I am just a poor game designer and I don't really know anything on this very interesting subject.

Thanks for the patience!

Andrea

[Cruz Verras]

Hi Andrea.
Found the following info in the 2nd vol.of the official history on the greek air force, publ.1982.
According to records concerning July 1922, Sgt.Christophorus Stavropoulos
belonged to "B" sq.(which was the renumbering of 532sq. during the Asia Minor campaign.)All squadrons had a mixed number of types, including fighters,bombers and rec.

On July the 10th he flew in Spad 4468,chasing an enemy plane until his "single gun" jammed.So,probably 4468 was a Spad VII and maybe this applies also for 4466.
Thats all for now.

Cheers Cruz.

[Angiolillo]

Thanks again, rich and precise answer!

I actually have a far shorter official history at home, the illustrated book. This one I guess:

Hellenic Air Force - Publications

But when my friend sent me it from Greece, the English edition was sold out and I have the Greek one... Without knowing even the alphabet. I will study.

[DTB]

Hello Again Andréa,

Well, this site haves many mistakes.

The Nieuport 24bis you show comes from a pictures stored in greek historical service, taken in Gorgop for an inspection of general Franchey d'Esperey or something like that.

But this plane do not belong to escadrille 531 : I have all the serial numbers of the planes given to the greek in april 1918 (you can see that in website Société Nieuport ) and 4613 is not there... The initials TP belong to a pilot from french escadrille 507, Pierre Tihy. This is very likely that it was his plane.

If you want to put in your game a plane with greek cockades that we are almost sure flew operationnaly during WW1, make the Nieuport of Alexandros Zannas. I have a bad picture of him near a Nieuport, you may have it because it come from the greek version of the history book you talked about. The Nieuport is silver, with a round fuselage, but we don't see the tail (24 ? 24bis ?). The wheels seem to be colored, and it haves a big "5" in the fuselage. We're not even sure it was the plane he flew, as squadron leader he may have flex the "1" instead...

But, to make something almost historically correct, as far as we can say :

- Silver Nieuport 24bis with greek cockade and greek tail.
- Red "5" on the fuselage.
- Wheels colored in red or tan.
- Serial number... well, for exemple 3706, from a 24bis of escadrille 531.

Contact me in private if you want colors on fighters used in the macedonian front, from french aces Dieudonné Costes or Basile Sauné, or even serbian pilots.

DTB

[Angiolillo]

Thanks for the notes! For me, that site was anyway as the first sip of water found in the desert. All I had before, about Greek aviation, was that Greek book and some pictures I took in Athens to models exibited in the war Museum - the latter being not really a trusteable source I'd say. It took a couple of dozens of years to fix mistakes on real airplanes (not models...) at the Italian Air Force Museum...

I will follow your instructions for the Ni.24/bis? - actually things are even easier for me. I only need to make an upper view of the plane, so the serial number is not relevant, nor the wheel can be seen. Models are included in the DeLuxe edition of the game, but actually chances to make a Nieuport 24 are quite low... Not in the next few years, anyway. Only 4 plane types are released every 6/8 months and there are already Ni.16 and Ni.17 in the line. Ni.11 and Ni.28 are probably due to arrive before the 24 gets any chance.

A Serbian Ni.27 (flag and black "2" on fuselage) is also planned as a card and I completely miss an upper view, so that's interesting too. And yes, a French ace on that front could be great.

I'm writing you right now!

Thanks a lot,

Andrea

[Cruz Verras]

Andrea,glad that I helped mate.

DTB,great lead on all those serials, thanks a lot.
Are these lists complete,because I did'nt seem to find the above metioned serials for greek Spads.
I would also like you to send me(off this thread), those two macedonian front liveries.

Cheers and thanks,Cruz.

[DTB]

Cruz,

Send me an other message on my mail box and please write a title... The last you sent went directly on the spam box.

DTB

[Cruz Verras]

Hi DTB

Send it yesterday.
On the wait, hope I'm lucky this time.

Cheers Cruz.

[ditigi]

hello friends.
My site about hellenic air force, has too many mistakes but that's something i can't avoid. Information about this theme are not always right and lot of facts are missgiven. Lot o infos have been destroyed etc. I'mreffering to the period before 1945 of course.
About this Spad: i've found this profile (andi recreated it) in a magazine (i can't find where i have store it, but i'm looking for it). It's for sure that the specific SPAD never wore Hellenic Emblems. It is also known that many GreeK pilots had flown aircrafts with French or British emblems.
Now i see that DTB is right and that this plane never belonged to 531 Sq. Please my friend if you notice other mistake in my site let me know them. After all this is one of the main purposes of my site. To corect the false infos about hellenic aircrafts.

About the organization of the "hellenic Air Force" you can take a look at helaf.wordpress.com/haf-shost-history

And may the following be helpful:

Aviators Company = Lochos Aeroporon = Λόχος Αεροπόρων
Army Air Service = Aeroporiki Ipiresia Stratou = Αεροπορική Υπηρεσία Στρατού It belonged to the Royal HellenicArmy = VasilikosEllinikos Stratos = Βασιλικός Ελληνικός Στρατός
Naval Air Service = Aeroporiki Ipiresia Naftikou = Αεροπορική Υπηρεσία Ναυτικού. It belonged to the Royal Hellenic Navy =Vasiliko Elliniko Naftiko = Βασιλικό Ελληνικό Ναυτικό
Royal Hellenic Air Force = Vasiliki Elliniki Polemiki Aeroporia = Βασιλική Ελληνική Αεροπορία
Hellenic Air Force = Elliniki Polemiki Aeroporia but we call it ΠΑ = Πολεμική Αεροπορία
And i think that SGT = Lochias, not Lohias

[ditigi]

hi again.
DTB did you mean something like that one in the next post?