Richthofen and Albatros D III 789/17

[Hal Oele]

Dear friends of history,

as promised, here´s another piece of the big puzzle around Richthofen and his planes...
(Slowly) One step after the other...

Yours
Hal

Hi all,

this somehow elusive aircraft arrived at Jasta 11 on Wednesday, May 2nd 1917, when Manfred von Richthofen was on leave for one and a half month until Friday, June 15th 1917.

For an aircraft in combat a period of six weeks was a long time, especially when flown by Jasta 11 pilots. When Manfred von Richthofen entered the cockpit of Alb. DIII 789/17 on June 18th for his 53th victory, his mount was war experienced.

In his "Richthofen" book Peter Kilduff give us wrong information on page 91:
"Holy Saturday, 7 April 1917, brought news both and bad. The good news for Manfred von Richthofen was the arrival of a brand-new aircraft, Albatros D.III 789/17..."

Ferko knews the right data, via Grosz, who got it from me, but this great US researcher was no friend of PK or DSA.

Actually this aircraft was delivered to Roucourt airfield on May 2nd. It hardly could be Manfred von Richthofens "Abendmaschine", the aircraft flown by him next to "Petit Rouge" at La Brayelle or Roucourt..

Here some data from the original documents:

Albatros D III 789/17
Werknummer 31342
30.4.1917 bei Armee-Flugpark 6
2.5.1917 von Armee-Flugpark 6 zu Jagdstaffel 11

Manfred Thiemeyer

[Shredward]

Fascinating stuff Hal, but the cheap shots are getting a little old.
shredward

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by Shredward

Fascinating stuff Hal, but the cheap shots are getting a little old.
shredward

That's what I said!!....Can these guys ever open a thread without saying something about Dan?

STOP IT ALREADY!!!

thanks....

[JFM]

Ferko wasn't friends with PK and DSA? What's so bad about that?

I didn't see them as cheap shots because the comments regard statements and claims made in the Abendmaschine (et al) threads. In that thread Hal wrote he'd start a new thread and here it is. The MT comments refute contrary claims made earlier regarding 789/17's arrival to Jasta 11. I see the information as contrasting, not attacking, and since there is conflicting information regarding 789/17 I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[Tim West]

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['14-'18aviationcollector]

Originally Posted by Shredward

Fascinating stuff Hal, but the cheap shots are getting a little old.
shredward

Sorry guys but the cheap shots dispensed by Dan San are also very old, uncalled for and intimidatory. If he stopped conducting himself in that manner he would have a lot more respect from members in the rest of the world other than the US. I happen to think that Hal and Manfred have a lot of excellent material to contribute to this site, and I agree, he probably should not antagonise Dan San but the sad fact is that Dan San does it to nearly everyone, and nobody takes any notice because you guys in the US love him. I have tried to contribute some meaningful information about PC 10 on this forum and Dan San tries to ridicule me, he does not listen to or understand what I am trying to say and it just discourages people from saying what they want to say. This behaviour should not be tolerated on this site.

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by JFM

Ferko wasn't friends with PK and DSA? What's so bad about that?

I didn't see them as cheap shots because the comments regard statements and claims made in the Abendmaschine (et al) threads. In that thread Hal wrote he'd start a new thread and here it is. The MT comments refute contrary claims made earlier regarding 789/17's arrival to Jasta 11. I see the information as contrasting, not attacking, and since there is conflicting information regarding 789/17 I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

It's not the particulars but rather the fact that ever damn post "They" have to say something about Dan or who ever. It's just as lame as me hijacking this thread huh?

[JFM]

Okay, back to the point.

The werknummer information is very interesting; thank you for that. Also, I believe it makes sense that 789/17 wouldn't just sit around while MvR was gone; complete waste of a new war machine. Who flew it until Richthofen's return? And, when he did return, did he assume complete ownership of 789/17 or did he just fly it now and then? After all, he started scoring with D.V 1177/17 eight days after his return.

[Tim West]

Originally Posted by '14-'18aviationcollector

Sorry guys but the cheap shots dispensed by Dan San are also very old, uncalled for and intimidatory. If he stopped conducting himself in that manner he would have a lot more respect from members in the rest of the world other than the US. I happen to think that Hal and Manfred have a lot of excellent material to contribute to this site, and I agree, he probably should not antagonise Dan San but the sad fact is that Dan San does it to nearly everyone, and nobody takes any notice because you guys in the US love him. I have tried to contribute some meaningful information about PC 10 on this forum and Dan San tries to ridicule me, he does not listen to or understand what I am trying to say and it just discourages people from saying what they want to say. This behaviour should not be tolerated on this site.

Agreed DSA can dish as well BUT he doesnt make a point to do so in EVERY post.

Why not just leave the personalties problems out of the discussion? Idk, it'd prolly work pretty well

['14-'18aviationcollector]

Originally Posted by JFM

I'm trying to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Excellent point Jim,

We are all trying to seperate the wheat from the chaff, and unfortunately there is far too much chaff on this site at times .....