Colorful German Field Paints,,wash or solid?

teisco · 1 November 2009, 09:24 AM

Some of us are painting aircraft for the new flight sim Rise of Flight and a question has come up. When they painted the colorful personal graphics and markings on the German aircraft did they use a light wash to save weight? If so was the wash slightly transparent letting the camo under show through?

Or, did they use a solid paint that completely covered the factory paint..thinking of planes like the red Fokkers and and such,

Thanks,

'14-'18aviationcollector · 1 November 2009, 10:08 AM

Hi,

Often the paints - in fact they were probably more likely to have been dopes - were at the very least semi transparent. Some paints or dopes might have been more opaque than others, but often the national insignia and even lozenge or Fokker streaky green is visible underneath personal or Jasta markings.

Regards,

David.

Cigogne · 7 November 2009, 06:48 PM

Other than the factory finishes, they used whatever they could get their hands on, domestic product, or locally acquired from the occupied towns, or captured stock from British or French sources.

The red paint of the Richthofen Geschwader for example? Richthofen sent his mechanic Holzapfel wherever was necessary to acquire red paint. He had an open signed pass that allowed him to go, whether by car, or airplane to various locations.

'14-'18aviationcollector · 7 November 2009, 07:05 PM

Thanks for the comments Cigogne,

I am very sure you are correct. All of the nations would have used whatever was available, whether it was official paint / dope intended for field repairs - eg. PC 10, roundel red, white and blue, black, Fokker streaky green (or olive / khaki), German cross black & white etc or paints obtained from the local villiagers, shops etc. In my experience, First World War aeroplane finishes, although often more opaque than translucent tend to be applied very sparingly, obviously with the intention of saving weight. Several PC10 samples I have are semi translucent, only because they have been applied in thin, and as a result, relatively patchy layers.

Regards,

David.

davecww1 · 9 November 2009, 10:15 AM

I was always curious of aircraft such as Jasta 18 Ravens where the lozenge covered fuselage and wings were overpainted with white and red. This paint looks very opaque with none of the dark polygons from the lozenge showing through. Would this paint have been a standard enamel? Don't think a dope would cover the metal panels on the nose at all. And would it dry gloss or flat? really makes you wonder...
Dave

Hans · 9 November 2009, 11:16 AM

No pigmented dopes, please! Paints in use where oil-resin (natural resins "cooked" in oil) based paints and ketone resin based paints. No reason to assume "washings" or translucent paints or bad covering.

H

Gregvan · 9 November 2009, 07:38 PM

Hi Hans,

Thanks for that - I agree. However, there were examples of somewhat translucent paint finishes, while others are suprisingly opaque. The dark blue used first on Jasta 18 aircraft under Berthold's command, and later Jasta 15 (and the other JG II units) was an example; frequently the overpainted national insignia are still visible 'through' the blue overpaint, and sometimes even serial numbers can still be discerned. I'm not sure how much this was a function of the orthorchromatic film.

I think Alex Imrie raised some very good points in German Fighter Units June 1917-1918: "The quality of paint had steadily decreased as the war continued due to the shortage of raw materials, and occasionally it was the availability of a certain colour of paint or dope in quantity that decreed the shade adopted. The colours used in the application of both unit and personal markings tended to be unstable, and some were not even waterproof. Consequently after considerable service in the vicinity of mud, oil and petrol, they seldome resembled the pristine examples they had been at the time of application. It has been recorded that sometimes whitewash was used for lightening purposes and even boot polish was applied when nothing better was to hand to produce black. Allied to the practical problems of supplying markings was the fact that attrition of D category aircraft was extremely high. Accidents caused by weather, poor aerodromes, pilot error and mechanical failures as well as actual operational losses ensured that a fairly steady turnover of aircraft took place within most units. As a result, markings of a temporary nature usually did not cause undue problems, for by the time the paintwork started to crack or flake off, or lose its original colour, the machine had probably been written off or replaced."

Hans · 10 November 2009, 08:21 AM

Greg, it's a complex theme. But like the late war colors in WWII there are more myths around than facts. Of course the supply situation was critical, of course this was the main reason for the introduction of lozenge tarnstoff. But on the other side, pigments never where on sihort supply, remember that the Reich even traded with them with the US in July 1916. The main shortage was natural bases like oils, natural resins and towards to the end even thinners based on petroleum products.

Reading some descriptions I sometimes have a sneaking suspicion that bad or careless workmanship with correct thinning, careless cleaning of sooty surfaces etc etc took the same toll as bad quality paints.

Concerning the blue Jasta 15/18 paint: Blues are notouressly mediocre covering paints and still are. Even with todays high quality alkyd resin paints it would not be sure that you can't the see the difference between a dark undersurface and a white undersurface. Even today I would suggest to prime a even grey or white coat on a tarnstoff fuselage with crosses already applied.

H