UDets D.VII- Red/White or Black/White stripes?

[Treize]

Has it ever been confirmed one way or the other? Or whats the general consensus now? Most of the images I find searching the 'net show the stripes in red/white, but the Osprey book by Franks and Van Wyngarden show it black/white. Is there any definitive proof one way or the other?

Looking at getting together the most up to date info on it before launching into a potential attempt at a skinning project for a sim.

[davecww1]

No proof one way or another, also no way to tell if the fuselage was completely red or had a black nose & struts, or even was all black... one of those great controversies that will probably never be proved one way or another, although I would go with red & white, and am leaning towards the red fuselage with black nose since I think it looks better. Then there's the question of the white stripe on the turtledeck and chevron on the tail....
Good luck!
Dave

[Treize]

Ouch. So no matter which way I go, I'll probably start an argument. Great...

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Treize:
I refer you to Udet's autobiography, "MEIN FLIEGERLEBEN photo between page 88 and 89, second page. on the stripes on the upper wing there is no border between the cross arm and stripes. If the stripes are red and white there is no border required. If the stripes are black and white a white border is required the differenate the stripes and crosses. On Osprey drawing there is a white border.
On the photo there is no white border separarting the crosses and stripes!
You decide.
Blue skies Treize,
Dan-San

[Treize]

Thanks for all the help guys!

[Familyman]

Originally Posted by davecww1

Then there's the question of the white stripe on the turtledeck and chevron on the tail....
Good luck!
Dave

The white stripe on the turtledeck can be seen in the same photo Dan San mentions, under Udet's right armpit. I don't know if there were two stripes or one wide one, but I've always liked this interpretation, illustrated beautifully by Jay M. Thompson:




Mikko

[davecww1]

Hi Mikko,
nice picture but if you look at the article in Windsock Fokker D.VII Special vol. 2 there is an article by Dave Roberts on this aircraft, he determined by drawing lines over the photo that the white seen in the photo could not be the edge of the fuselage (longeron) due to the location, and that E. Ferko said it was a book in his arm.
So never as easy as it seems!
Dave

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Dave:
1. Previously I had concluded that the turtledeck was white, I was wrong, what we had been looking at, is the Jasta 4 white stripes, above and below the longerons. This is how I have shown Du doch nicht!! in Volume 1 DVD on an all red fuselage with red and white candy-striped upper wing.
2. The second candy-striped D.VII is pictured on a wall in Udet's apartment.
This is the one that Taz argued about, there are no stripes whatso ever. The fuselage is all red.
I don't know if it is the same D.VII with the white stripes over-painted or another D.VII, however the upper wing was red and white candy striped.
Blue skies Dave,
Dan-San

[Familyman]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

... what we had been looking at, is the Jasta 4 white stripes, above and below the longerons.

So there were Jasta 4 markings. Black nose would make sense too, then?

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

2. The second candy-striped D.VII is pictured on a wall in Udet's apartment.
This is the one that Taz argued about, there are no stripes whatso ever. The fuselage is all red.
I don't know if it is the same D.VII with the white stripes over-painted or another D.VII, however the upper wing was red and white candy striped.
Blue skies Dave,
Dan-San

If it is another D.VII, we do not know much about Du Doch Nicht! machine, do we?


Mikko

[ludwig113]

"2. The second candy-striped D.VII is pictured on a wall in Udet's apartment.
This is the one that Taz argued about, there are no stripes whatso ever. The fuselage is all red. "

hi dan,
where can i find a picture of this wall and picture or the picture alone please?

cheers paul