lozenge ??

[FOKKERJ]

As always, Thank you Dan-San for this information, especially the colors.
Wasn't there two color variations on the Kriegsmarine Hex?

The difference in the sizes of Kriegsmarine Hex is attributed to one being hand painted (larger) and the second being printed linen (smaller).
Is that correct?

Thanks, Jay

[Doug Baumann]

Originally Posted by FOKKERJ

As always, Thank you Dan-San for this information, especially the colors.
Wasn't there two color variations on the Kriegsmarine Hex?

The difference in the sizes of Kriegsmarine Hex is attributed to one being hand painted (larger) and the second being printed linen (smaller).
Is that correct?

Thanks, Jay

thanks Dan!! and good question Jay as long as were on the Navel Hex what were the Methuen's color codes for the painted hex why was the 4 color upper made? who ordered it and why ? was the 5 color not cutting it or was it a resource problem ?? only you would know Dan

[Dan_San_Abbott]

HiJay;
I believe it was Peter Gray who came up with the blue three color Kreigsmarine printed fabric scheme sometime in the 1950s. He made an educated guess which was completly accepted by everyone, including myself.
It was not until Peter Grosz, published his article on the Kreieigsmarine ABB document that raised the question of the painted colors. At this point I had not taken the specified paint colors of grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown as set in cement, because of what Peter Gray had come up with.
Then came the awakening, when Peter sent me a piece of the Naval three color printed fabric, which was printed in grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown elongated six sided polygons 155 x 200 mm. The ABB specifically stated the three printed colors were, grey-blue, grey-violet and grey brown. That is when I realized, we all had it wrong. It was then I wrote the article (at Peter Grosz's request.) for WW1 Aero. There is a copy of the article in the Articles Section of the Menu listing in the Forum.
These three colors for the Kreigsmarine printed fabric has been slow for acceptance, it is not and pretty as the false blue scheme. I don't think Ray rimell has accepted it yet, you get the argument that there was these other blue colors used. Unfortunately the Kreigsmarine ABB is quite specific about the paint and printed colors, no opitions.
Blue skies Jay,
Dan-San

[FOKKERJ]

Thank You Dan-San,

That explains alot.

Was there a difference in required colors between the "Hand Painted" and the "Printed Linen"?

Or were there two different color schemes in the "Printed"?

Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. Here's this:

The Hansa Brandenburg W 29 and German Naval Camouflage -- Part 1

and this:

The Hansa Brandenburg W 29 and German Naval Camouflage -- Part 2

[Doug Baumann]

Dan do you have any idea what colors they Painted navel hex's ????
thanks Dan
thanks Jay for your link

Doug

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Doug Baumann

Dan do you have any idea what colors they Painted navel hex's ????
thanks Dan
thanks Jay for your link: D

Doug

Hi Doug,

You are very welcome.... Dan-San Authored the Articles on the two links that I provided.
Everytime I try to copy and post pertinent information from them, it doesn't work. I remember last time that I tried, it was on your Long, Long, Decal Thread, that I had to copy down every character, one by one,
that tends to bring out the dislexia, H.T.D.D., and a few other annoying experiences out of me!
Maybe I'm still fighting the Computer Age!

I don't remember finding an answer to more than one color scheme, just colors and the two sizes for the Kriegsmarine Hex, Painted and Printed.

It's easier for me if I can go in and copy the parts that I need and organise them.
Otherwise, they may pick me up again wandering around, incoherently blithering, "Cake, Cake, I Like Cake!".
It could happen!

Cheers, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Hi Doug and Dan-San,

I hope that I have not offended either of you with my last Post.
I seem to have difficuties with reading some text on my Monitor screen.
I don't know if it is the format, size, contrast, or what.... It may be that I am just "Alten Schule".... don't know!
Some things are best read by me in a book form.

That's all.

Best Wishes, Jay

[FOKKERJ]

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Hi Guys:
This slightly bent Alb.W.4 has a painted hexagon (true hexagon) pattern in grey-blue, (light hex) grey violet 9medium) and grey-brown (darkest) as specified in the Kreigsmarine ABB document.
Blue skies,
Dan-San

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Hi Jay;
I believe it was Peter Gray who came up with the blue three color Kreigsmarine printed fabric scheme sometime in the 1950s. He made an educated guess which was completly accepted by everyone, including myself.
It was not until Peter Grosz, published his article on the Kreieigsmarine ABB document that raised the question of the painted colors. At this point I had not taken the specified paint colors of grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown as set in cement, because of what Peter Gray had come up with.
Then came the awakening, when Peter sent me a piece of the Naval three color printed fabric, which was printed in grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown elongated six sided polygons 155 x 200 mm. The ABB specifically stated the three printed colors were, grey-blue, grey-violet and grey brown. That is when I realized, we all had it wrong. It was then I wrote the article (at Peter Grosz's request.) for WW1 Aero. There is a copy of the article in the Articles Section of the Menu listing in the Forum.
These three colors for the Kreigsmarine printed fabric has been slow for acceptance, it is not and pretty as the false blue scheme. I don't think Ray rimell has accepted it yet, you get the argument that there was these other blue colors used. Unfortunately the Kreigsmarine ABB is quite specific about the paint and printed colors, no opitions.
Blue skies Jay,
Dan-San

Hi Dan-San,

I hijacked your following responce to a Modeling Thread:

Originally Posted by Dan_San_Abbott

Hi Dimitrious:;
ihave been following your contruction of the Alb.W.4. I greatly admire your workmanship, it is top notch.
In answer to your question from your previous thread.
Prior to April 1917, the manufacturers finished their aircraft in colors of their choosing. As far as I know,there was not a document requiing a specific finish. There may have been in the contract from the Kreigsmarine to the aircraft manufacturer a specified colors. See-Flugzeug Versuchs-Kommando, (SVK) (Seaplane Testing Command) established a directive titled [I] Allgemeine Baubestimmungen für Seeflugzeuge der Kaiserlichen Marine, ABB (General Construction Requirement for Seaplanes of the Imperial Navy)
On 3 April 1917 the SVK[I] issued an amendment to the ABB requiring all aircraft manufacturers to finish all Naval aircraft as follows:
1. Standardized national insignia with a white border 5cm wide.
2. The Marine Nummer painted all parts of the aircraft.
3. All surfaces visible from above, to include the upper surfaces of the upper and lower wings, tailplane, tops of the fuselage and floats shall be painted in hexagons, 15cm on the sides, 30cm in diameter in three colors, grey-blue, grey-violet and grey-brown.
4. All surfaces viewed from the side, the fuselage, rudder floats and all struts will be painted grey blue.
5. All surfaces viewed from below will be painted light grey.
6. The fabric under surfaces of the wings and tailplane will remain their natural color.
The ABB was amended in April 1918. This amendment specified:
1. All surface viewed from above to include tops of upper and lower wings, tailplane, tops of fuselage and floats, to be covered with three color linen printed fabric printed in irregular hexagons, 15.5cm x 20cm in grey-blue, grey-violet and grey brown.
2. All surfaces viewed from the side, fuselage, floats and all struts are to be painted grey-blue.
3. All surfaces viewed from below are to painted are to be painted in light blue.
4. The under surface fabric of the upper and lower wings and tailplane may be painted light blue or may remain the naturual color.
5. The National insignia will changed to comply with the Luftstreitkräfte directive of 17 March 1918 to balken cross. The cross will be 3:1 ratio, arm to width, with a 15cm white border surrounding the cross. The fuselage and rudder cross shal be 50 cm high and 3:1 ratio to width.
The Hansa-Brandenburg W.29 article in the Menu of the Forum has more details.
Hope this is of help.
Blue skies Dimitrious,
Dan-San
6.

I just wanted to get this all together for reference purposes.

Thanks again, Dan-San.

Best Wishes, Jay

P.S. I hope that you are on the mend and feeling better.

[Doug Baumann]

Jay !! i am not offended by not thing any one said here Dan i do hope you feel better very soon !
and far as the names of grayish brown , grayish violet and grayish blue that is all they are names some one in the past gave them, it is help full only to give the reader what hue it is under .some one who coded the color in WWI matched the color in Methuen's book. the book Has No Names in it who ever look at the book and coded it as 6e4 ,15d5 ,20c3 there is no names in the book.. but HE name them right there and now grayish this and grayish that for the readers of the report to give the idea of what the colors were! you need the book to see the colors. how dark is the gray how much color is seen in the gray!! the codes i stated above is from the April 1918 the codes for April 1917 6e4 ,15d3,20c3. both codes are for Printed fabric only not painted . well it looks like to me and i hope i am wrong the PAINTED hex was never coded so it is lost to history for ever any thing done as far as to say what color was used is truly GUESS WORK Totally. how close is the painted hex to the printed hex ? are they the same Hue? less gray? are they more saturated or not ??these are the questions i have if the codes do not exist !!! sadly we will never know the colors if the codes or a peace of hex's dosn't exist.
Doug

[Dan_San_Abbott]

Hi Doug:
In as much as there is no mention of color chips in the ABB, which, I would suppose the manufacturers were left to decide on the colors. What is interesting, is that most of the Kreigsmarine aicraft appear to be in about the same shades of grey in photographs, which indicates uniformity, which only can be attained, if the colors were controlled by color chips. It is possible that in the written contract included color chips or painted fabrics watches to control the colors.
In my own experience with U.S. Army and U.S. Air Force contracts, the defining document is the contract, it specified the item and /or any exceptions, all the specifications for all the materials, hardware, and finish, delivery and destination and the supervising inspection administration. You were strictly controlled. I do not doubt for a second, the German aircraft and engine industry was strictly controlled from what I have read.
Blue skies Doug,
Dan-San