F.1 Camel in Nivo?

JohnFitz · 20 November 2009, 05:39 AM

Okay guy's, I found this photo in the Harleyford, Fighter Aircraft book. Can anyone provide a better photo of it or any other Camel that may have been finished in Nivo? There is also a small inset photo of F.1- E5165 and a color profile of it on the covers of the Windsock Fabric Special No.2. I am trying to compare photo's to those I have of the Martinsyde F.3 in "night fighter" markings so I can determine the likelihood of the F.3 being finished in Nivo. Thanks for your consideration.

bristol scout · 20 November 2009, 05:56 AM

Hi johnfitz,
i'm not at all convinced (for myself) that B2402 an F1 modified to F.1/3 'Comic' standard IS in Nivo------I've studied it long and hard and find no compelling proof from the photo---there is a photo. of it before conversion on page 9 of 'Sopwith Camel Squadrons' by Windsock----but I can't post a scan of it mate--sorry.

Perhaps one of the guy's with the book and the ability will do so for you.

Dave.

JohnFitz · 20 November 2009, 06:02 AM

Thanks Dave, So what is your opinion of that high gloss on the bottom wing? From what I have read Nivo was developed to provide "reflection" so to me this would fit the gloss on the wing. Then again, the top wing looks matt but who knows with the lighting used at the time of the photo. Should be able to see roundels on the top of the wing I think? Cheers.

hansvg · 20 November 2009, 06:40 AM

Hi John,

B 2402 could have been finished in a specially mixed green as many 44 HD aircraft apparently were. Karen Rycklewski has built a model of this aircraft that can be found on the World war I Modeling Page and she used Windsock volume 4 no. 2 summer 1988 as a reference.

The same photo can be found on the internetpages dedicated to lieutenant Robert George Craig M.C. 44 Squadron. It looks like the upper wing on the photo has been retouched. As far as I can remember NIVO was a matte paint with no gloss in it.

Regards,

Hans

JohnFitz · 20 November 2009, 07:06 AM

Thanks Hans, I'll look into that. This is a quote from the WDFS, " night camouflage was thrown back at Orfordness to decide which was more effective for night concealment-matt or sheen. The answer was surely a matter of common sense. A dull sheen was more effective for concealment from enemy night fighters , a matt finish was more effective than a sheen for concealment from searchlights". It goes on to say how the armistice solved the problem and that, " with Nivo in large-scale production, economies decreed its adoption as an overall finish for night flying aircraft". Has anyone noticed the PC12 fabric sample to be an error in the WDFS? It sure fits the description of Nivo to me. It makes sense to me that "matt" Nivo would have been used on the undersides and the dull sheen on the top surfaces. Anyone care to comment on this photo?

bristol scout · 20 November 2009, 10:09 AM

Hi John,
You know---and I do, that for every 'dull', matt looking Camel--or any other British aeroplane---you can find a slightly sheeny one--and a full gloss one.

My own feeling---and the way I modelled it in 28th. about 30 years ago--was standard finish --notwithstanding all the 'Special Greens and Nivo's floating around.

It is almost impossible to be pedantic on interpreting B/W photographs.

Dave.

JohnFitz · 20 November 2009, 10:25 AM

Yeah, I know, but you never know when some new discovery might pop up.

I try to get as much ironed out as possible before I spend the time and money to build something.