Henry John Burden's C'1096- "3" or "V"?

Bill McGill · 21 May 2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brez

Thank-you Alex,
For such an interesting and informative post. I was (like I guess many others) always under the impression that square cowling = Viper, rounded cowling = Hisso. Thanks again for clearing things up.
Cheers,
Tony.

To illustrate that point here's a pic from the Wingnuts website showing an early viper SE.5a with Hisso type cowling.

"SE.5a B4899 RAF built. Early direct drive Wolsley Viper engine instalation. Note that it retains the Hisso style radiator and cowlings" (their photo caption)

Bill.

RAGIII · 21 May 2010, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill McGill

To illustrate that point here's a pic from the Wingnuts website showing an early viper SE.5a with Hisso type cowling.

"SE.5a B4899 RAF built. Early direct drive Wolsley Viper engine instalation. Note that it retains the Hisso style radiator and cowlings" (their photo caption)

Bill.

DAMN! I guess I have to go back and change the cowling on my SE:

I always wondered about that picture, too small in

High in the Empty Blue for me to be sure of the cowling type. Live and learn! Won't do it right away, too many other projects on the board

RAGIII
PS: Alex, thanks again for all of your input/knowledge, shared without recompense!

Brez · 23 May 2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reflected

Now that we know that Burden was in C flight during his entire service with 56 sqn there's not much left to discuss,

Well, it does leave one question - the identity of '3'.SE5a.jpg

Its a 56 squadron, B flight machine after mid January 1918 yes? but as you say its very hard to tell if the serial number is C1096.
C1056 is a 60 squadron SE5a, C1066 belongs to 32squadron.
C1086 is a Viper powered SE5a of 56 sqn. but its Capt. Kenneth Junor's Bubbly Kid II.
Anyone got any idea of what, whose SE it is?

YavorD · 23 May 2010, 09:40 AM

From the same production batch I have C1076, C1086, C1096, C1146, C1149 with No 56 Squadron (Source: The S.E.5 File).
Regards,
Yavor

alex_revell · 24 May 2010, 02:41 AM

Brez,
I don't have the photo of 3. Any chance you can post it?

YavorD · 24 May 2010, 05:15 AM

Just for the record.
D6126 (Vickers built) Capt H. J. Burden, Fokker D.VII crashed N of Peronne 13:15 on 22 August 1918.
2Lt N. F. Bishop was wounded in the same machine on 21 August 1918.
Regards,
Yavor

Brez · 24 May 2010, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_revell

Brez,
I don't have the photo of 3. Any chance you can post it?

Hallo Alex,
I've sent you the photo and Ray Rimmell's profile in a PM.
Cheers,
Tony.

alex_revell · 25 May 2010, 01:22 AM

Tony,
Many thanks for the photos. I must admit that the photo of C1096 marked 3 is new to me. It is certainly in B Flight markings, confirmed by the wheel cover markings and the number. You'll notice that the prop has what looks like Burden's markings on it. I can only suppose that it originally was to go to B Flight, but was then, for some reason, allocated to Burden. The only problem here is that Burden had it as his aeroplane very soon after it had been delivered to the squadron. I've got to get up in the loft later today to look for something else, so I'll take the opportunity to have another look through the Sqdn record books to see if they contain any clue. Ola Slater did all the statistical data on who flew what SE5 by going through the squadron record books and he only names Burden as having flown C1096. He was a very careful and thorough reseacher, but he may well have thought it not worth recording if a particular aeroplane was only flown once or twice by a pilot, perhaps merely for training or practise flights.
By the way, I'm not sure about the rads being different. I don't think the photos are clear enough to be sure of this.

alex_revell · 25 May 2010, 03:49 AM

I've been through the 56 sqdn record books and I think I've solved the problem. The serial of the SE5a '3' in the photo is partially obscured by the struts and is, I believe, actually C1086. This was Junor's aeroplane and it was first flown by him, for a 'test' on 27 March. He then flew it until he was killed in it on 23 April.
The composition of the Flights in March and April 1918 was not as static as it had been. In addition to pilots flying Special Missions and flying in pairs, it appears that people were flying in mixed formations, under different Flt Commanders or ad hoc leaders. But Junor flew mainly under Galley, who was B Flight Commander. So I think that when he first flew C1086 he was a member of B Flight, hence the 3 and the wheel cover colours.
Note. Burden flew D283 to 2 ASD on 28 March and while there collected C1096 and flew it back to the squadron. The two SEs were therefore issued to the sqdn only a day apart and I don't think there would have been time or reason to have marked the flt markings and then changed them.
C1086 went to B Flight and Junor and C1096 went to C Flight and Burden.

Brez · 25 May 2010, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brez

C1086 is a Viper powered SE5a of 56 sqn. but its Capt. Kenneth Junor's Bubbly Kid II.

So it is Ken Junor's Bubbly Kid II, but in an earlier guise.
Still I think you have to agree that the Memorial Flight have done a pretty good job on the finish of their SE5.

Tony.