Roland C.II post mortem

VNulk · 23 August 2009, 02:30 PM

Hi Folks,

After finally getting the 1/4 scale Roland ready for flight, or so I thought, the first attempt ended abruptly as it turned out to be too tail heavy to continue. I managed to bring it down and as it pancaked into the corn on the edge of the field, it sustained surprisingly little damage. One lower wing tip and the starboard horizontal fin were impacted.

I completed the repairs and added nose weight to the point that it really looked much better for balance but today during practice taxis, would nose over much too easily. I decided that if I could get it in the air, that I'd worry about handling on the ground later. Take off role was predictable and as soon as I had near flying speed, I switched to low rate on the elevator as I needed a lot of up elevator to prevent nose over again. The rest of the lift off was graceful and even but once I got it up about 150 feet and turned around, I found myself unable to keep it level and it began a slow sink back to the corn, not having the time or instincts to switch the elevator back to high rate. More up elevator might have saved the plane then but I'm thinking that it still might have been a bear to fly. It chopped through the corn stalks, which helped to minimize the impact but but still the wing and rigging damage was substantial.

Discussing the flight with friends afterwards we're thinking that the plane was either too heavy or engine not generating enough thrust for the configuration. Either way, I'm convinced that the scale construction of the fuse produced a frame that was overweight to begin with and that the weight needed to balance just added to the problem.

I'm also disappointed to say that my videographer, we'll call S., was, in the end, too challenged by the record/pause button on the camera and I have but 1 1/2 seconds of the last flight of the plane as this time the corn won big time and all wings panels are damaged beyond my wanting to rebuild them. The rugged Roland fuse, noted for it's durability, was undamaged and is ready for another set of wings, but unfortunately, is the part that needs to be redesigned. Only time will tell if I start out again on this A/C.

I want to thank all that have supported me and taken an interest in the progress for several years and provided assistance and encouragement. This forum is great for that!

The plane won't make Rhinebeck but we will and look forward to seeing many other projects that I've followed here at the forum. There are a lot of incredibly talented builders out there and you're all doing a great job.

See you all at the field!

Vern

MerlinV · 24 August 2009, 02:14 AM

What a bummer! Have you considered shifting the undercarriage forward a tad?
I know it will not be true scale, but it might save your build from coming to grief again.

Cheers,

Hugh

JohnFitz · 24 August 2009, 04:38 AM

Sorry to hear that Vern. You made a great effort.

Olson · 24 August 2009, 04:45 AM

Sad ending for such a magnificent model, maybe someday you'll get back on a set of replacement wings. ................John

Fokker Ace · 24 August 2009, 06:10 AM

Are there photos of this build or the finished plane? I can't find any threads here.

SCMc · 24 August 2009, 09:25 AM

Vern,

I had enjoyed watching the progress as you built the Roland. I'm sorry to hear about the loss. It will probably take some time before you are interested in doing anything with it, but I hope that you won't write it off entirely.

You wrote that it tended to nose over on the ground. Perhaps you could take off some of the nose weight that you added. You also noted that it might need some more power. Perhaps a combination of these would make it flyable. You were able to get it up to 150 ft. before it started sinking. This makes me wonder what changed between the time that was climbing and when it started sinking.

If, after time to get over the loss, you decide that you are not interested in rebuilding it as a flying model, I hope that you will consider finding a museum that wants it, and rebuilding it as a static model. It is much too beautiful to remain hidden away where no one can see it.

Steve

Bookmaker · 24 August 2009, 12:28 PM

Sorry to hear that. I am unfortunately well aware of the pitfalls of an overweight aircraft. They seem to go down much better than they go up.

Also, sorry to hear about your disapointment with not haveing video. Fortunately for me, one of the other modelers took good video of my plane's illfated flight as my wife lost the plane in the one whe was taking.

I have watched the video over and over to look for signs of what NOT to do again. I have identified several.

Any hope of a rebuild on a diet?

Dale

VNulk · 24 August 2009, 03:25 PM

Thank you all for your words of support - you folks are great! This forum is terrific for that as well as all the back and forth on a mountain of topics.

I keep going through the second flight in my head and I honestly cannot account for the smooth climb and then, with power on, seemingly no vertical control. Two critical things I have to look at before I tear into the aft section of the fuse to lighten is to 1) get a current reading of the RPM's of the engine with the prop used, and 2) observe the mechanics inside to ensure that I didn't have any failures there. If I can't find answers there, I'm back to focusing on lightening up the fuse and cleaning up the mechanics.

For Fokker Ace, the thread that I started with the majority of the photos are perhaps on the second page of threads labeled "LFG Roland C.II Progress" - it's been locked for a while now.

Vern

Fokker Ace · 24 August 2009, 03:50 PM

Now I see the two photos of the overall model. What a piece of art! How terrible to read your crash details.

It's hard to say what might have happened as it indeed seems like an odd set of events that transpired. The good news is it sounds as if you're going to rebuild. And with less weight in the tail and less weight overall you will probably have a winner. The trick is finding a way to remove that weight without eliminating details.

If it were slowing down and settling into the corn, my feeling is adding a bunch of elevator might have stalled it right out and spun it in causing even more damage. So maybe you did the right thing and flipping to a high rate might now mean starting from scratch.

VNulk · 24 August 2009, 05:25 PM

Thank you FA,

Your kind words are greatly appreciated. It has been and, when I get my momentum back,will be a project of keen interest and desire to see a C.II in the air with as much historical accuracy as possible.

I may never know the cause but I'll continue to look into it to see what I may discover. I'll post any significant revelations I may find.

In case any of you are planning to make the trip to Rhinebeck, and since the plane won't be there to indicate who I am, I plan to be wearing a wide-brimmed hat with a Roland button and I'll be with my beautiful (I am definitely biased) blonde Susan, so if you would come up and introduce yourselves to me and Susan, we'd look forward to meeting any or all of you in person. We plan to be there Saturday all day but I'm not sure about Sunday. Hope to meet you there.

Best Regards to all,

Vern