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| Games and Flight Sims Topics related to Red Baron, Dawn Patrol and other WWI aviation games |
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28 June 2007, 12:38 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Guest
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@Der Grüne Flieger - 3D WARGAME - LONG!
>Is there a quick way to describe how the whole thing works??
>Phil
Hello Phil!
In a couple of words: wargames HAVE to be fun and historically accurate.
The relative percentages of these variables are not fixed. Usually a game that is 100% fun cannot be also deeply realistic, and vice versa. And of course it depends on the interest and experience of the players.
Anyway, the approach to the simulation, because we are trying to simulate the real thing, is willingly "abstract".
There are 7 altitude levels, from very low to very high, each aircraft has a data card in which are listed its technical characteristics. speed, turn radius, armament, strenghtness, etcetc.
BUT the main key of the game are the pilots: green, average, veteran. and aces. Pilot class influence maneouvering, firing, etc. Everything.
The game - because we are playing, isn't it? - is divided in turns.
At the beginning of the turn the aicrafts are labelled "advantaged" "neutral" and "disadvantaged" in function of their relative position and pilot class.
Disanvantaged aircrafts move first (the models are actually moved on the so called "gaming surface" - translation: a table), followed by neutral and last advantaged.
Then all firing, if any, is calculated and resolved with the usual die modifiers due to range, deflection, etc. and damage is applied.
The main feature of the rules are the "Maneuver table" that rule the allowable moves for an aircraft and the "cards" that influence the whole game.
Their goal is to "steal" to the player the absolute knowledge and possibility to do the best move every turn. Sadly the reality was (is) very different.
Rolling a die on the "maneuver table" you locate what you can do with your plane. Lets say that a "3" is enough for a veteran pilot to perform every kind of maneuver, but the same "3" allows a green pilot only to dive and/or a large radius turn. Maybe YOU, the player, wanted to climb, but HE, the pilot, decided to do something different. This reflects the fact that a veteran pilot is both more skilled in piloting AND has a clearer view of how is developing the overall situation (combat awareness).
Cards can positively modify the performance of your pilot. A veteran has a random hand of 3 cards, 2 for average, 1 for green. An ace? 5!
Referring again to our poor green pilot that rolled "3", maybe his card is a "maneuver card" that adds +2 (3+2=5) to his die roll... and so, playing that card, he would be allowed to climb.
For example, a veteran could have a hand with these cards: "If firing, fire 2 burst instead of 1, at no extra ammo expenditure!" (best aim and management of ammo); "Your aircraft is advantaged" (best awareness); and "Turn without loss of speed" (best maneuvering).
As you can see, the effect of the cards is quite abstract, but their purpouse is to avoid unrealistic calculation by the players "I'll do that because I know that you cannot do the same"... in theory yes, but the right card, played at the right moment, can reverse the initiative etcetc.
We are not playing chess in a rainy evening in front of a fireplace, with a glass of brandy...
We are furiously dogfighting in the air! The decisions have to be taken in a split second!!!
Well, I don't know if I am succesfull in explaining the core of the rules, but... they WORKS! ;^)
Up to now the rules are for WW2 air combat, and so the importance of leader/wingman cohoperation is greatly stressed, and are in Italian.
I am currently working to the WW1 version.
Maybe in the future I'll be able to translate them in English... who knows? :^)
Marco
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28 June 2007, 07:08 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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Forum Ace
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 642
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remgain,
I think I understand. I actually thought it was as you described, a chess match. Now I can imagine a bunch of guys hollering around a board, rolling dice. It sounds fun.
To adapt it to WW1 do you take out some of the performance from the "Maneuver table"?
Regards,
Phil
__________________
You can't tax your way to prosperity because,....
NULLUM GRATUITUM PRANDIUM
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28 June 2007, 07:37 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Guest
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Phil,
to adapt to WW1 I'll keep the same Maneuver Table, increasing the possibility to perform aerobatics, as I think that air combat in WW1 should be more "furball" than the "zoom-fire-dive" WW2 attacks.
Lets say that if in WW2 Table an average pilot needs a 6 to perform an aerobatic (loop, split-S, Immelmann, etc), in WW1 Table the same pilot will need only a 5.
Plane performances has no influence in the Manneuver Table, they are listed in the plane data cart.
Than I'll delete all the stuff regardings leader-wingman cohoperation, and I'll have to add something for gun jammings and ammo reloading.
Oh, well... I suppose that I should paint some 1/300 biplanes too! ;^)
Marco
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30 July 2007, 10:24 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Two-seater Pilot
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Hampshire, England
Posts: 120
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 If I might butt in here. I think you got the idea Phil. My first WW1 Air Combat games (in 1/72nd) were a hoot. Our club met above a local pub, and we could have up 12 models or more 'flying' in a dogfight. If a squadron or flight leader thought one of his side was handbagging it a bit (just staying out of trouble), the miscreant was liable to the odd 'friendly' burst. Lost of fun (and beer), but everything the aircraft did was based on correct performances etc. It's nice to act your shoe size (14 in the UK).
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31 July 2007, 07:58 AM
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#5 (permalink)
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Scout Pilot
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 325
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...the effect of the cards is quite abstract, but their purpose is to avoid unrealistic calculation by the players "I'll do that because I know that you cannot do the same"... in theory yes, but the right card, played at the right moment, can reverse the initiative etcetc.
We are not playing chess in a rainy evening in front of a fireplace, with a glass of brandy...
We are furiously dogfighting in the air! The decisions have to be taken in a split second!!!
sounds like your game does a good job of communicating the feel of dogfighting --and that (not flying) is what games should be simulating. bravo! making things unpredictable (read: not safe) for the player/pilot is, i think, a big (and critical) factor in creating a set of good dogfighting rules.
i, also, do not like the current crop of rules that reduce dogfighting to a dry, calculated exercise in flying skill. my own rules also rely on pilot skill in dealing with this issue: maneuvers are not "sure things" --players need to roll for their success-- and pilot skill modifiers act to make more difficult flying easier for good pilots. a rookie flyer can still attempt the tricky maneuver, but runs the risk of spinning out of control (or even breaking the aircraft) --i like leaving options open to players, but attach risks/penalties.
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