Internet connection to play ROF only?

Albatros_Ace · 19 March 2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleddyn

I don't know of any programs that automatically update and do not give you an option to turn auto-updayes off. Look in the options. Also, your computer needs a fair amount of free space to operate properly. IF you don't have room for a patch you need to remove some stuff.

Bad feeling about it in what way? You seem to have internet, no problem there. Do you think it will reduce sales? Games offered in digital form have been outselling retail boxes for a couple years now. People on dial-up have made the choice not to be anywhere near the edge of online technology. Someone who choses to drive a Model-T can't complain that he has no ABS.

There is a small fringe element that seems to think it is a violation in some way if a game uses their internet connection (which they obviously have to come online to complain about it). I have said it before and I will again... IT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR SMALL COMPANIES TO PREVENT THEFT! Without these things companies like neoqb could not stay in business.

Simple really, live with it or have no companies making games like this... not a hard choice.

Quick check of Empire: Total War, a fairly new game on the market. The 11+ GB download had over 1900 people sharing it, 12000 people downloading it. (I am referring to illegal downloads) Do you think a smaller company like neoqb can sustain that? Do you think they should make the game suceptible to this because an online verification bugs you?..........

This game has only been advertised online, if you are talking about it you have a net connection.

It needs 200mb of free space on the drive that windows is installed on Right now I have 500 mb on that drive and 14gb on my other drive but temproray fiel use that 500mb up quickly and I often have to clean my temp files folder

Willi Von Klugerman · 19 March 2009, 04:35 PM

My internet connection is as twitchy as a B.E.2c.Couldn't they just keep the main part of the game offline and do the developing stuff during multilplaying?
If they continue with this idea then there will be plenty of complaints after release.I'll bet you 10 grand it'll will happen!

WarrenD · 19 March 2009, 07:11 PM

"There is a small fringe element that seems to think it is a violation in some way if a game uses their internet connection (which they obviously have to come online to complain about it)."

Yes, we have come online to complain about it, but I think you are comparing apples to oranges Bleddyn. A message board is not a product, and none of us has paid Scott or anyone else on the Aerodrome a fee for
a product. Flight sims and games have been until recently, as you have kindly shown me, a stand alone product. Therefore to imply we are hypocrites, which I think was your intention, is a mistake.

"I have said it before and I will again... IT IS THE ONLY WAY FOR SMALL COMPANIES TO PREVENT THEFT! Without these things companies like neoqb could not stay in business."

True enough, you have made this point more than once. There has been a paradigm shift as to how flight sims/games will be sold and marketed. However, all that Willi, Albatros Ace, Rabu, and others I may have inadvertently left out are saying is that they either don't like that aspect, or they, and others, might have issues in buying and using the product due to circumstances that are beyond their control.

To steal a line from you: I have said it before and I will say it again, I wish these folks all the luck in the world, and hope that they are wildly successful beyond their hopes.

Warren

xjouve · 20 March 2009, 03:01 AM

IMHO, that's a very sad/bad idea...

I guess they're mistaken about the average WW1 flight sim enthusiastic.

Behind the whole situation, a question comes to my mind: Is RoF a game or a sim? Excuse the manichaeism, but requirements for MP and SP are way different. The most photo-realistic game ever won't be a sim if it isn't prepared in such a way. A very-well designed arcade shot-em-up game won't replace a sim in any way. Then, it's just a matter of taste; I respect 'gamers', mostly young guys/boys, but I prefer sim which is of course a kind of 'sophisticated game'. If I'm not wrong, the average WW1 flight simer isn't really the same as the average arcade gamer --Then I'm afraid this business model won't fit well with potential end-users.

The success of WW1 SP-oriented sim requires a deep research into historical facts/events. I mean not only plane related, but about what really was World War 1 itself, and its aviation as well: squadrons, objectives, maps, landscape with towns/villages -based on France/Belgium, and not on what the Western front is supposed to have been-, front lines, dates, etc. --> See RB2 or OFF (both not perfect; I'm just thinking about the 'way')...

A MP-oriented game requires well-designed and playable planes, accurate/spectacular damage model, well-designed scenery/landscape that more or less looks like what one imagine about the western front, etc. but not as much as historically accurate than a SP-oriented soft in other aspects.

Generally speaking, a sim can be used as an arcade game if needed, but an arcade game can't be automatically used as a sim if needed.

Quote:

3. Do I need an internet connection to play ROF?

Yes, because first of all we are talking about online service, where you can get together with many other people with same interests, where you can get in groups and play against other users or AI and many more.

Theaerodrome.com is "where I can get together with many other people with same interests, where I can get in groups"... I'm not looking for a new place. That's look like off topic to me.

Well, I can be wrong; I'm speculating. Just a last thought, do you really think that the average WW1 flight simer care about this statistics thing? Could this be used as an argument?

Well I'm not looking for an immersion in today's present lol Or maybe I'm an isolated case...

Anyway, I wish neoqb all the luck.

Dughor · 20 March 2009, 04:14 AM

Fortunatly I have a good internet connection - so no problem from my end.

But do they realy think, this "calling home" thing will not be cracked, once the game is released?
There are much bigger companies out there, putting millions of dollars into copyright stuff (EA, UBI Soft and others), just to find their software being cracked couple of days after release.
There simply is no real save copy protection.

But judging from the voices around, that "calling home" functionality prevents lots of people from buying the game.
Customers that are now lost, cause they won't buy that game because of the integrated copy protection!

Those people who illegal download games, would not have bought them anyway. So those are no "real" lost customers.

xjouve · 20 March 2009, 07:00 AM

Well, I forgot to had something else... which is not just 'something'

As I said, I wish the guys at neoqb all the best. But what'll happen if, saddly, their company isn't able to support the proggy/servers/etc anymore? Unfortunately, neoqb won't be the first one to suffer from economical problems.

The same remark is applicable if the dev at neoqd, because they have succeeded, want to work on something else and thus choose to put less support in RoF (which would be fully understandable).

I mean if customers have spent money for their DVD... what'll happen to them? Will RoF be a kind of rent then? If it will cost almost the same as any other soft this kind but only for a rent (until a prossible even; not to say that apparently/maybe it'll be required to pay for additional planes and other stuff)... then it'll be something really really different. Not in a positive sense.

Wait and see.

VonKost · 20 March 2009, 07:30 AM

Let me start by saying that I pay for the games I play.

I bought Empire Total War and it's a great game, though I feel ripped off at only getting one disk of the four disk History Channel show that was advertised as being included in the special edition I bought. ($70)

I thouroughly resent the big brother aspect of having to use Steam to play my own paid for copy of this game. I did not know this was required and might not have purchased a copy had I known. If RoF is the same way then I will likely refrain from purchasing it as I do not want my money to go to a company that chooses to treat it's customers in such a way.

If they are providing online arena's and services like other online MMO's and online flight sims, that is a different story as you are paying for those services, but this new development of having to check in with big brother to play with your own legitimatly purchased software will not get my support and continue to keep companies from getting my dollars at least.

<S>
fyvsix

Bleddyn · 20 March 2009, 02:43 PM

If people truly are forced to use an phone-line connection (which I find odd in the continental US as you can get broadband in a town of less then 1000 in Northern Canada) then the authentification is the least of your worries.. alot of these games, ROF for North America included, can only be purchased through a digital download. For anyone who actually is completely unable to get a decent connection at their home then I do feel sorry for them, as it is quite unlikely they were the ones downloading illegal software in the first place.

@Willi: if they set it up so it only checks for authentification in Online play, then hundreds of people will download illegal copies to play offline only. It does not address the theft issue at all. I'll take your $10k bet though.. it will not harm this game in the slightest. The game industry has seen a revival and upswing since going this way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjouve

IMHO, that's a very sad/bad idea... I guess they're mistaken about the average WW1 flight sim enthusiastic.

They probably did not look at flight sims as a separate entity.. it is entertainment software and would have been looked at in a copy protection and distribution sense with a view on that industry as a whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjouve

There are much bigger companies out there, putting millions of dollars into copyright stuff (EA, UBI Soft and others), just to find their software being cracked couple of days after release.

Good example(s), thank you for naming them yourself. That is why EA has stopped making it's biggest seller for the PC (Madden) and is phasing out other PC titles to console only. For the PC titles that remain they are turning to Steam. Ubisoft has already done so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xjouve

There simply is no real save copy protection.

Can you name me one title with online authentification that has been successfully cracked? I brought up ETW.. the "crack" has no video cutscenes without Steam, no weapon sounds and certain campaigns are unplayable.. I would not call that successful. That is why EA, Ubi and most of the other big ones have signed on:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steam Publishers

2K Games <-
Activision <-
Atari <-
Capcom <-
Codemasters <-
Eidos Interactive <-
Electronic Arts <-
Epic Games, Inc. <-
Focus Home Interactive
Gamecock Media Group
id Software <-
Majesco
Meridian4
MumboJumbo
Paradox Interactive <-
PopCap Games, Inc.
Rockstar Games <-
SEGA <-
Sony Online Entertainment <-
Strategy First
THQ
Tilted Mill Entertainment, Inc.
Ubisoft <-
Valve <-
WB Games <-

arrows next to particularly big/successful companies

So your point has actually proven that even the big companies have given up (or are giving up) on offline authentification.. and you expect a little company to survive?

I had the "Steam is BS, will never catch on, just a fad etc etc" arguments almost 8 years ago with people who are active gamers in many genres. They all have and use it daily now. Steam lists 1244 titles, some are demos etc., so lets say 800 - 900 games on Steam.. .not really a new and passing thing.

And as for what happens when a game is no longer supported? You may get a last patch which disables the online check, if the company decides to do so. You may get nothing, that is up to the publisher. You used the analogy of "renting" the content on your DVD and it is quite apt. You do not own any software you buy, ever. Try actually reading the EULA that we all have to agree to at install, it may surprise you. (EULA = End User License Agreement.. you are a licensed user not an owner, by law, when you click that I Agree button.)

xjouve · 20 March 2009, 04:05 PM

Please edit your post mate. You aren't quoting me (apart from your first quote).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleddyn

They probably did not look at flight sims as a separate entity..

You're guessing optimistically; I'm guessing pessimistically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleddyn

it is entertainment software and would have been looked at in a copy protection and distribution sense with a view on that industry as a whole.

Of course. But that's not an argument actually.

Dughor · 22 March 2009, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleddyn

Can you name me one title with online authentification that has been successfully cracked? I brought up ETW.. the "crack" has no video cutscenes without Steam, no weapon sounds and certain campaigns are unplayable.. I would not call that successful. That is why EA, Ubi and most of the other big ones have signed on:

You were quoting me...

AFAIK Spore is one of those titles with online activation, which was cracked.

I do mostly play MMORPG. So I am used to be paying a monthly fee. And as I said I don't realy have problems with "big brother" watching me. I have nothing to hide...
Bought all my games up to know.

In my freetime, I am contributing to Richthofens Skies for Targetware environment. So I know too, how much work is needed to build a game.
Endless hours...

That said, I fully understand the wish of software developers protecting their software.
But also, I don't beleive, there is a "realy save way of doing this"