Ehrenbecher Award List?

VtwinVince · 11 December 2004, 10:31 PM

Is there a definitive list of awards of the Ehrenbecher and Ehrenpreis? There seems to be alot of confusion about the actual numbers awarded. Any help would be welcome.

Soderbaum · 12 December 2004, 04:15 AM

Hello

For the Ehrenpreis, you could probably find nearly all who received it in documents (several) in the archive in Freiburg.
However, one of the files which have the "name" Ehrenpreis was stolen from the archive about 3 Years ago...

Perhaps was the stolen file microfilmed...?. I havent ask the personal in Freiburg...
It is also a chance that the file with the name Ehrenpreis was among the material microfilmed by US troops after WW2, so it is a small possibility that it exist in the National archive in Washington..

Regarding the awards of the Ehrenbecher, I have the impression that it exist a list in a institution in Germany. However, these institutions "never" answer your questions (at least not mine..

)

Gunnar

VtwinVince · 12 December 2004, 05:21 PM

Thanks, Gunnar. Any idea on the numbers awarded? I seem to remember a book called "The Ehrenbechers:Where are they now?" I wonder if it's still available.

ehrenpries · 3 January 2005, 12:29 AM

Unfortunately one of the comparatively minor problems of WW2 was that so many records and history were destroyed that would interest us now.

Obviously it is virtually insignificant against the backdrop of the tragedy and misery of those years, but it is still frustrating to those few that would like to be able to record history, such as the recepients of the Ehrenprise.....not helped by the so-and-so that lifted the file from Freiburg.

Maybe they will be returned , I hope so, as it would be a great piece of historical record to illuminate the recepients of the Ehrenpries.

Quite evidently I have an interest having chosen the 'handle' Ehrenpries !

More mulled wine nurse

Ehrenpries

VtwinVince · 3 January 2005, 01:20 PM

My sentiments exactly, Ehrenpreis. On a side note, the ehrenpreis which was offered recently on the Derrittmeister website has a date, but no recipient name. I was under the impression that the awarded ones were all engraved with the name. Any thoughts on this, or is this example an unawarded one?

ehrenpries · 3 January 2005, 11:43 PM

An original 'named' Ehrenpries will attract $8000 plus plus plus.

I have to make it clear that this next remark is unsubstantiated, and certainly not, repeat NOT, claimed by DerRittmeister in any shape or form, but I personally believe the Ehrenpries that DerRittmeister has for sale is one that was destined for Theo Osterkamp. There is some pretty grey area around the award of the Ehrenpries to Oncle Theo, and the dates that it would have been awarded for, but from memory I think one was expected to be awarded to him but never was.
Again from memory I think it was because he had already achieved an aerial victory in a previous unit.
I believe this was a source of iritation to him, and this disappointment I seem to remember was recorded in his book, but I cant read German.

I personally think this was prepared for him, then not awarded, or it was prepared for him, and found to be faulty in construction and not issued. Anyway, they are my thought for what they are worth.

Im prepared to be shot down in flames but check the date and who was around at the time that COULD HAVE BEEN ELIGIBLE, and Im sure you will see some thread in my thoughts.

More mulled wine nurse please before Dawn Patrol !

Ehrenpries

At the end of the day I am confident this is a genuine Ehrenpries on offer, but never awarded for whatever reason.

Soderbaum · 4 January 2005, 01:44 AM

Hello

Firstly I am no expert on medals/decorations at all. But the date when Osterkamp received the Ehrenbecher is given in one of O´Connors books. I think it was Feb 1917 as Theo had scored his first victory in early Sep 1916...
However, Theo was also awarded the Ehrenpreis in mid Apr 1917.....

Did this result that Theo had to leave back one of the pocals...?, I dont knew and I dont think Theo mentioned it in his book(which I dont have at home)...

Of special interest is that Osterkamp, Sachsenberg and Meyer received a "new" Ehrenpreis in Aug 1918. Meyers award was posthumously. Was this some kind of special Ehrenpreis...?

Regarding the normal Ehrenbecher, I am rather convinced that they all were delivered without any engravement. It was up to the recipient to contact a local shop for this job. Some did this but it seems that many never made any engravements...
However, all Ehrenbecher was delivered with a certificate with basic information. When engraved basically the information from the certificate was used...

Gunnar

VtwinVince · 5 January 2005, 08:09 PM

I believe you are correct, Gunnar. I have my uncle's Ehrenbecher with the award document, and it is unengraved and of the steel variety, as it was presented in January, 1918. The award came about three weeks after the actual victory.

Rick · 5 January 2005, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VtwinVince

I believe you are correct, Gunnar. I have my uncle's Ehrenbecher with the award document, and it is unengraved and of the steel variety, as it was presented in January, 1918. The award came about three weeks after the actual victory.

Well, VtwinVince, who was your uncle??? Don't leave us hanging in suspense. Thanks, Rick

VtwinVince · 6 January 2005, 03:55 PM

Hi Rick,

He was Leutnant Albrecht Ochs, later Major in WW 2 and deputy CO of III. JG 3 during the Battle of Britain. I am currently writing a detailed bio for Cross and Cockade, which I will hopefully have finished and off to the editor in the next weeks. Best regards,

Vince