Real (?) PLM on E-Bay

pmirl · 18 December 2004, 10:46 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

history fan · 19 December 2004, 03:51 AM

I am always a little suspicious of e-Bay auctions where the bidder's I.D. is kept secret. In any case, the sides of the decoration seem to be unfinished and rather rough. Also, the seller does not mention who the Award is hallmarked to. Finally, the PLM was supposed to be worn daily while the recipient was in uniform. This one would have been silver with gilding placed over it. There seems to be very little loss of the gold due to handling and wear. I am not an expert, but these are some of the things I look into when I examine the PLM. HF

Regulus · 19 December 2004, 04:58 AM

Hi,

I've raected on the matter at this location, and I repeat that it looks suspicious, sorry !

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/sh...248#post188248

Best from Johan

history fan · 19 December 2004, 05:58 AM

.....not to mention the fact that the metal content is always 938. I am not sure about why there is an 800 mark for silver as well, but I am sure that is incorrect. HF

Regulus · 19 December 2004, 02:40 PM

Hi HF,

Well there do seem to exist a bit of variants between 800 to 938. Most of the time there is in the silver also a marking next to it concerning the firm who manufactured them for example JG (J Godet at Berlin) or for the same firm JG & S or J. Godet. Other known are Rothe and as far as I remember Wagner at Berlin.
There also would exist probably jeweler initials such as Ak and ET. But never have seen them.
There is also the question on the pattern that can be seen in the silver part of the ribbon, which looks more like the modern version then the old one.
Concerning the double ring for the crown device, there do exist a few examples with originals, but the question is if the ring is original in the case.

Best from Johan

history fan · 19 December 2004, 05:37 PM

Hello Johan-
I agree with your observations. It is my understanding, however, that an original issue piece of this sort would always be marked 938. Anything less would indicate a jeweler's copy or something else. I once had a prominent dealer here in the U.S. try and pass off to me a pie-slice PLM marked 925 as an issue piece. I had a number of others look at it as well. The consensus was that it was probably made in the 1930's. This particular award came with photos and additional decorations from the supposed pilot as well. The dealer was quite peeved to have to take it back, but it has always been my understanding that if the marking was less than 938 the Award was not issue. Someone else ended up buying it.... At that point I decided this dealer was operating more on enthusiasm than expertise!
For more info. and examples, take a look at the website www.medalnet.net HF

Kirby · 20 December 2004, 08:22 AM

The Prime Rule for buying on Ebay is, "You pays your money and you takes your chance."

Sad but true.

Zacky Maggot · 20 December 2004, 11:59 AM

Hmmm...
I think the description of this item has been written rather deviously...
The title states that the ribbon is 100% authentic, not the PLM. Its easy to read it as the whole lot being genuine though, at a casual glance. 'Ribbon is 100% authentic and belonged to Johanness von Eban general of infantry'. This sentence reads that the only part of the lot originally awarded to Johanness was in fact the ribbon and I would imagine a modern PLM has been placed on it. I have a modern PLM with an aged look award certificate, its very easy to deceive on Ebay! Looks like someone is going to pay a lot of bucks for a ribbon of dubious originality..

Zacky M.

AOK4 · 20 December 2004, 08:30 PM

The ribbon can't be original as it should have an extra silver line in the middle for the oak leaves...

Jan

tamerlane · 20 December 2004, 10:02 PM

The piece in question is a copy. It is most likely one of the pieces made by Steinhauer & Lueck after 1957. The ribbon may be original, in which case it would be worth about $1000 by itself, but there is no reason to believe the word of a seller who keeps everything private. I wouldn't do business with him, just on principle.

Stay away from any "pie slice" types that are marked 925, as there is a commonly available reproduction of that type made - and marked - in 925 (sterling) silver.

It seems there is at least one commonly available run-of-the-mill reproduction offered on Ebay every week that is described as "absolutely original" and sells for big money to people just lining up to get fleeced. Just because someone has stamped "W" or "JGuS" or any other maker's mark into a piece does not mean that maker actually made it. Anyone contemplating buying one of these should buy from a reputable source, and consult as many reference sources as they can get their hands on before spending their cash. There are perhaps a few thousand original pieces in existence, but there are probably MILLIONS of reproductions.

Here is another recently sold PLM on Ebay that went for $999. It is described as "100% original" and "pre-1930". It's nothing of the sort. This is a standard, commonly available reproduction that can be had for around $25 retail. That's what Lemony Snicket would call "an unfortunate event.": http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...500440326&rd=1

Tim