Turkish medal ribbons

Got a question for anyone who can help me. *Does anyone know what the design for the Osmani Order (aka Order of Ottoman Empire aka Nishani Osmani) ribbons is in the 4 classes? *I know that the basic ribbon is bright green with two thin red stripes near either edge, but I was wondering whether the order uses rosettes or other devices from 3rd to 1st class. *Also, I know the order occassionally awarded the order with swords, but is there a device on the ribbon to show that? Thanks.

Blues

[tamerlane]

Just my cup of tea!

The 1st class is worn on a sash, comparable in width to sashes used on other countries' orders.

The 2nd and 3rd class neck badges are identical, and use a neck ribbon that is about 37mm to 39mm in width. Sizes of original ribbons that I've seen fall into that range.

The 4th class is a breast badge, and the ribbon is generally the same width, although I've seen examples with ribbons that appear to be original that are as narrow as 33mm. Original 4th class ribbons always have a rosette - if there is no rosette, the ribbon has probably been replaced at some time. (Strangely enough, the 4th class is harder to find than the 3rd class, especially with the complete original ribbon.)

Other than the rosette for the 4th class, I have not heard of any devices used on the ribbons. Awards with swords did not use a different ribbon or device. The only Turkish award that I know of that used any devices on the ribbons is the Red Crescent medal, which used an oakleaf, but I have never been able to determine what the oakleaf was supposed to represent.

Tim

P.S. - If you haven't already seen it, my web site on Turkish decorations is http://www.turkishmedals.net It may not have the most detailed articles in the world, but I don't charge anything for it, either

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your reply, that clarifies things a lot. I actually checked out your site before...really nicely done and informative

I have a follow-up question on the ribbons, however. Did the Ottomans ever use ribbon bars instead of wearing the actual badge and star? I seem to recall seeing a picture of an Osmani order ribbon on a German ribbon bar (probably at the Werhmacht ribbons site). If so, what would those look like in the different classes?

Cheers!
Blues

[AOK4]

Bluesman,

Did you try this site: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forum/index.php ?
It has a large section about WW1-era medals too.

Regards,
Jan

[tamerlane]

Bluesman,

The Turks rarely ever used ribbon bars themselves, and it seems they never had any statutes authorizing their use or defining their proper form and wear. German recipients of Turkish awards, however, frequently used ribbon bars. You often see either the half-red/half-green ribbon of the Imtiyaz medal, or the red-with-green-borders of the Liyakat medal on ribbon bars, with the crossed sabers and date bar attached. Sometimes you see ribbon bars of the "Eiserner Halbmond" with tiny miniatures of the badge attached. None of these had any official status as far as the Turks were concerned, but it is likely that some Turkish officers may have adopted the German style of wearing ribbon bars out of personal preference.

Most of the portrait photos that you see of Turkish soldiers and officers in uniform show them wearing their medals full size. Of course, you don't see many photos taken in the field. My Grandfather, who was a Turkish officer captured by the British at Megiddo, had a few photos from the period, but nobody in his unit ever got any medals. They were sent out into the field and pretty much ignored until the Brits hit them with the 1918 version of "shock and awe".

If you look around at German ribbon bars long enough, you'll see a number of Turkish awards mixed in.

Tim

That's pretty much what I thought Tim. So it's unlikely that the higher classes for Nishani Osmani would ever appear on a German ribbon bar. Very interesting. Thanks!

One more question I thought of - The Osmani Orders have a star and cresent pointing upwards just below the ribbon. I've seen examples (pictures) in gold, silver, and some other, dull-colored, metal. Do you know the regulations regarding the proper metals to use at various levels of the Order?

I sincerely appreciate all your help.

Cheers!
Blues

[tamerlane]

Generally the Nishani Osmani was silver and either gold or silver-gilt on the "gold" portions of the badge. The ring around the center medallion and the the complicated calligraphy in the center seems to have been done most often in real gold, but could be gilt. The crescent and star at the suspension were silver-gilt, as were the sabers on those issued with sabers after 1916. One most of the pieces that you see, which are late 19th century through the end of WW1, the silver content is pretty low. Thus the dull-colored metal is actually silver.

The only official pieces made entirely in gold instead of silver were the 1st class badges with diamonds. I have seen private purchase pieces with the entire badge in gold, apparently by French makers, but those are pretty rare. Unfortunately, unlike the Mejidie order, there is no real place for a hallmark on the back of Osmani badges. That makes it difficult for collectors to differentiate between Turkish and European makers. The main thing I look for to make that distinction is the shape of the suspension ring on neck badges: the Turkish pieces always use a flat oval ring that flares out at an angle on the top half. European badges tend to use either large round rings or a simple symmetrical oval for the suspension. This doesn't apply on breast badges, of course, because they just use a round ring that the ribbon passes through.

Jeez, I must be boring everybody! Time to go back to my coffee.

Tim

Thanks for the info Tim, not boring at all

Cheers!
Blues