German Honor Trophies

ehrenpries · 24 February 2003, 08:40 PM

Forgive me KlausTh but Im hoping to widen the topic of German WW1 Honor trophies.
As a new forumite I may be going over old ground and am of course ready to be redirected to previous threads.However if the area of Honor trophies has been neglected it seems to me a fascinating project for an article in OTF or C&C.

Regulus really ignited my interest with the note that Theo Osterkamp had received both the Ehrenpries and the Ehrenbecher which must have been some achievment getting two awards for one's first aerial victory!

I'm interested if anyone knows the whereabouts in a museum or private collection of either of these awards.

I am proposing to compile an article for OTF or C&C on these trophies and would appreciate any known references, or your own notes on the whereabouts and details of these awards(Not just Uncle Theos' but any Honor Trophies).Naturally acknowledgments of your contribution will be made to the article submitted.

Perhaps the honor trophies are not quite as 'romantic' as the PLM but an area I would suggest that has been given little attention and deserves it.

Perhaps as an observer I am stepping out beyond my station but if you Forum Aces and Scout Pilots can see your way clear to putting down that goblet of mulled wine and stepping out of the chateaux to help an observer on his first pre-flight before the dawn patrol it would be much appreciated from a digger downunder!

Tony (Ehrenpries) (Australia)

Regulus · 25 February 2003, 02:34 AM

Hi Tony

How are things down under ?

Both the Ehrenpreis and the Ehrenbecher can still be found in quite a number of private collections.
The naval Ehrenpreis however is more difficult to find, as there were not so many naval pilots compared with the army, and also the number of victories was a lot smaller, with the exception of the Marine Feldjasta's and the Seefrosta that scored very well.

I haven't seen any of these items here in Belgian museum's yet.

Perhaps as you mentioned an article on these items might be interesting to be published. Also the evolution of the quality of the Ehrenbecher. They were about inch tall and the ones awarded until early 1917 were in silver. Afterwards they were made of iron.

Also interested is that the naval ones were much more personalised then the army ones. There was marked on it : Dem Sieger im Luftkampf, the date and the rank and name of the victorious pilot.
Of course Uncle Theo was again the lucky man to get both of them. I don't think any one else had the same luck on this matter !

Personally I think that the Ehrenpreis is far more beautiful then the Ehrenbecher ! But anyway the history of both is most certainly worth an article !

Best from Johan

Soderbaum · 25 February 2003, 11:00 AM

Hi

There was an short article about the Ehrenbecher in one of the early C&C US(1960s)...however also this article could not identify the German industrial man who financed the idea, if I remember correct...

In the Forume archive there is at least one discussion about the Ehrenbecher.

There was also a file in the archive in Freiburg about the Marine Ehrenpreis, which however was STOLEN for over a Year ago.. >

Perhaps one of our forumites was able to make a copy of this material before it went out of the door.???..because it was free to read for many Years...

I am very interested to have a copy this material..

I think I have a late War note that also Sachsenberg received both awards. It is a possibility in this case that "they" had to return their Ehrenbecher...?

Gunnar

ehrenpries · 25 February 2003, 07:33 PM

GDay from 'downunder'

Thankyou forum aces Regulus and Soderbaum for your interesting posts.

Lets hope someone responds to the Freibug archive.

Yes the Sachsenberg item sounds an area worth pursuing.

Perhaps some forumites have honor trophies in their collections and would care to share the who/why/what and where of their piece/s?

I see one was auctioned at Butterfields some months ago.............to a forumite perhaps?

OH well back to the mulled wine and the Schnitzel auf Strassburger before another early start over St.Omer!

Regards

Tony (ehrenpries)

KlausTho · 2 March 2003, 05:05 AM

Hi Tony:

I´m looking for an Ehren p r e i s. The best would be that one of my father. But that would be to much luck.
In the US there is some chance to get one, but the price is US$ 6000 and up.
It´s told to be cheaper in Europe, but until now I have not seen any.
The Ehrenbecher is more often, but out of my personal interest, because my father wasn´t so lucky to get both.
There shurely was some special connection to the army from Osterkamp and also Sachsenberg, if Gunnar is right.

Regards Klaus

ehrenpries · 10 March 2003, 08:27 PM

GDay KlausTh
Did you get my email enquiring after your father's details and your search for an Ehrenpries?
Cheers
Tony (Ehrenpreis)

KlausTho · 12 March 2003, 01:16 AM

Hello, Tony:

yes I received your e-mail. Thank you.
But this week an answer is impossible.
I´m busy with a search of books from Plüschow.
Next week I´ll answer you.

Bye, Klaus

Soderbaum · 12 March 2003, 07:57 AM

Hi

I just found that Sachsenberg received his Ehrenpreis as late as 31 Aug 1918.

That was a long waiting as he scored his first victory on 1 May 1917..

:

Gunnar

ehrenpries · 12 March 2003, 07:44 PM

Thanks Gunnar
Yes a very long wait for the Ehrenpreis. Perhaps he was awarded the Ehrenbecher closer to the time? If indeed he was awarded both.

There is a good article on the Ehrenbecher by Paul Leaman in C&C (UK) Vol15 pg133-136 but they seem to be few and far between. Certainly very little on the Ehrenpreis.Anyone out there with other references?

Regards from downunder

Tony

KlausTho · 13 March 2003, 12:34 AM

Hi, Gunnar;

I don´t think that the Ehrenpreis was given for destroying the first enemy plane.
My father told me that he received the Ehrenpreis for destroying an enemy plane in a heavy fight.
Maybe therefor Sachsenberg received his Ehrenpreis in August 1918.

And an other question: when was given the Ehrenpreis and the Fliegerbecher (Pilot´s cup)?

Looking for the Plüschow books (I found them: 3 from G. Plüschow, 1 from Isot Plüschow), I found also an cigarette album by Waldorf-Astoria, Munich (about 1930), titled Order - A collection of the most known german orders and decorations.

There in is a most interesting note over the Pilot´s cup. Here an summary:
The Fliegerbecher equals to orders and decorations.
Because of the improvement of a/c and weapons and not to handicap the fighters on earth the granting of the PLM couldn´t be done as in the times of Boelcke and Immelmann.
Therefor the pilots were granted after the 20th downing of a a/c or balloon with the Fliegerbecher
and after the 25th downing with the PLM.

Unfortunately there is no picture of the Fliegerbecher.

This would explain that Sachsenberg and Osterkamp have received the two prices (Ehrenpreis and Fliegerbecher).

Probably this regulation was only at the end of the war and not very known by the naval pilots, because my father told that he could have received the PLM if all his downings (eighteen) were recognized.

If this note in the album is right, the Pilots cup would be between the EK I and the PLM, the Ehrenpreis wasn´t mentioned.

Maybe that there is also the possibility of another
pilot´s cup in the army similar to the Ehrenpreis.

It would be interesting to look up, if the naval pilots
received really all the Ehrenpreis for the first successfull fight.

Until soon on the Plüschow thread.

Bye Klaus