Saxon Knight's Cross

9 April 2003, 04:09 PM

Hello,

After some preliminary research, I have yet to find a picture of the Saxon Knight's Cross. Was this order known by another name? If anyone knows were I can get a look at one of these medals (a book or website), along with it's ribbon, I would greatly appreciate it.

regards

Rick · 9 April 2003, 04:37 PM

Get a copy of Neal O'Connor's Vol. III. See Mike O'Neal's thread on the availiablity of this book and cost right in this topic (about nine/ten threads down below)! R.

Immo_Frese · 9 April 2003, 09:42 PM

Hi Wingedwarrior,

The term "Knights Cross" is only a part of the full name for the order. It describes the rank of the order or in other words: People of different rank and class were awarded with the same order but the order had another rank. The term Ritterkreuz usually stands for one of the lower ranks. This rank was mostly awarded to officersranks from Leutnant to Hauptmann. Komturkreuze or Großkreuze were given to higher ranks like Generals or people of higher nobility...

Knight's Crosses could be awarded in Saxonia with the Military St.Henry Order, the Saxon Merit Order or the Albert-Order to name just a few examples.

As Rick suggested before, I would highly recommend Neal O'Connors books about the German Aviation Awards. They are worth every Cent...

Best, Immo

10 April 2003, 01:51 PM

Thank you both for your info. Immo, your statement about how the cross was givien with an order really cleared things up for me. I was trying to find pictures of just the knight's cross, when actually I should have been looking for the Albrecht Order, Knight, 2nd Class with Swords. I will definitely look for the book you both suggested.

regards

Immo_Frese · 10 April 2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

I was trying to find pictures of just the knight's cross, when actually I should have been looking for the Albrecht Order, Knight, 2nd Class with Swords.

Hi Wingedwarrior,
a picture of the Order you will find here:

att.net/~david.danner/militaria/saxony.htm" target="_blank">http://home.att.net/~david.danner/militaria/saxony.htm

It's a really nice piece *

Immo

11 April 2003, 05:43 PM

Hi Immo,

Thanks for the great website/picture. You are right, it is a very beautiful medal!

regards

rammjaeger · 11 April 2003, 11:47 PM

I guess I am nitpicking once more *;D
but Danner is "modernising" (cutting the s) the names of the Saxon orders: Like Albrechts-Orden (correct written by Danner) the "Saxon Knight´s Cross" was the "Militär St. Heinrichs-Orden".

VBR
Rammjaeger

12 April 2003, 06:51 AM

Hi Rammjaeger,

Now I am a bit more confused (nothing new!), as I initially was using "above The Lines" as my reference for von Schleich's medals. On page 200, it states:

'In addition, he held the Iron Cross 1st and 2nd Class, the SAXON KNIGHT'S CROSS AND THE ALBRECHT ORDER 2ND CLASS.'

Is this just one award or two, or is the Saxon Knight's Cross = 'Militar St. Heinrichs-Orden'? Is the Albrecht Order 2nd Class = Knight's Cross of the Albrecht Order?

Help!!

rammjaeger · 15 April 2003, 05:22 AM

Wingedwarrior,

I guess my bad English is (partly) the cause for the confusion.

Another cause is the complicated system of awards with plenty of "Knight´s Crosses" of different classes for different awards in different German kingdoms.

If

ATL is reporting the "Saxon Knight´s Cross" then it is meaning that the person became a knight of the "Militär-St. Heinrichs-Orden" but in fact the Albrechts-Orden included also Knight´s Crosses: the Albrechtsorden, Ritterkreuz 1.Klasse and
the Albrechtsorden, Ritterkreuz 2.Klasse.

Summary: The term "Saxon Knight´s Cross" is not a correct term and misleading but nobody should blame the authors too fast here because the Germans had and have problems with the correct names too.

VBR
Rammjaeger

rammjaeger · 15 April 2003, 09:58 AM

After a more carefully reading of your lines I have to correct me, Wingedwarrior! I think I was understanding your question now correct.

You spoke about Schleich and referred to

ATL.
I realised Schleich did not get the MStHO. Therefore ATL could or should not mean the MStHO with the term "Saxon Knights Cross". It could be a any class of the Albrechts- or of the Verdienstorden. I did not find the name Schleich among my sources for the Verdienstorden this evening (but my German sourcebooks have only partial lists and I am already a bit tired).

I try it tomorrow again.