Karl Thom Pilot Badge on eBay

[Kilian]

Jaba thats the one i meant

[Taz]

jaba- Thanks for the advice. Will leave it alone.

Taz
Terry Phillips

[retread]

I suppose this is as good a forum as any to have this discussion. As regards Imperial pilots or observers badges, how can you weed out the fakes from the real item?

[tcrean7828]

Mates,
Thanks for the info and a healthy discussion on what the real one's look like would be helpfull to all concerned.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

[tcrean7828]

Originally Posted by wingedwarrior

Hi,

I studied these badges in detail several years back. I found that there are many, many copies out there. If anyone is seriously interested in this badge, they should get better close-up photos (the ones provided are not detailed enough to determine authenticity).

For great discussions on this type of badge, go here:

Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums - Powered by vBulletin

If you register, you can find great people to discuss this particular badge with.

Regards,

Darren

Mate,
Thanks for the info, I just signed up.

ttfn

tcrean7828

tom

Glad I could help Tom. Do a search for "German Pilot's Badge" , or something to that effect. I found many photos of authentic badges (both Prussian and Bavarian) that will be helpful in your quest to obtain an authentic one.

Regards,

Darren

[jaba-the-hunt]

I buy only C.E.JUNCKER made prusian pilot/observer/air gunnar or COMMEMORATIVE badge. Those bagdes are easy to detect from the tausends of copy and show the best quality. I never buy other prusion badges exept there are in a group from one person.

These are not cheap but the best one you can get.

here an JUNCKER Pilot Badge





or an JUNCKER air gunnar badge:

[LegendaryLoewenhardt]

No certificate of authenticity, no points made by a collector/historian of such items, no proof that this is real.

Good chance that this is a fake or a replica, not the real deal. Karl Thom went missing during WWII (as another user pointed out). It would be interesting to know where this turned up...

[Jim]

I am at the point now that unless it comes with an unquestionable provenance that I will not touch a WW I pilot's badge. The forgers have studied well as to how experts tell a real from a fake and they have learned how to use modern technology to make exact reproductions, including the Junkers badges, that can fool the best experts. My assumption these days is that all such badges are fakes unless they come with an absolutely unquestionable and unbroken provenence all the way back to the original aviator who was awarded the badge. Sure, I will miss out on the occasional real but undocumented example, but I will also miss out on paying big money for hundreds of expertly made fakes that exist for every real one. The odds of getting a real but undocumented one are very tiny these days. Even if you were to come across several real ones - the odds of them being war time issue rather post war are not all that great. These badges were made and issued up until WW II for aviators who had been in WW I but who wanted replacement badges to wear to show they had been in the great war.

[jaba-the-hunt]

Originally Posted by Jim

I am at the point now that unless it comes with an unquestionable provenance that I will not touch a WW I pilot's badge. The forgers have studied well as to how experts tell a real from a fake and they have learned how to use modern technology to make exact reproductions, including the Junkers badges, that can fool the best experts. My assumption these days is that all such badges are fakes unless they come with an absolutely unquestionable and unbroken provenence all the way back to the original aviator who was awarded the badge. Sure, I will miss out on the occasional real but undocumented example, but I will also miss out on paying big money for hundreds of expertly made fakes that exist for every real one. The odds of getting a real but undocumented one are very tiny these days. Even if you were to come across several real ones - the odds of them being war time issue rather post war are not all that great. These badges were made and issued up until WW II for aviators who had been in WW I but who wanted replacement badges to wear to show they had been in the great war.

There will be vary hard to find one with unquestionable provenance. Only if you buy right from the familiy. But the most badges or groups will leave many hands. So it`s hard to say if the badges from a group will be bestowel one. Sometime the family buy a lost piece later.
At this time it is possible to find a real WW1 piece without provenance. It is not easy but possible. The (prusian) pilot or observer badges are not so rare. Those was in great quantities hand out and don`t forget the thousends of private purchased pieces. Not all pieces on market are fakes. For this reason i only buy JUNCKER made pieces because this are "easy" to detect fro the copies.

Regards

Alex