Please help identify an Observer's Badge

[JonnyKhan]

Hello. I'm new to this forum and I hope someone more knowledgeable can help me. My grandmother passed away, and I inherited my grandfather's military items from her. He was a Corporal who primarily served in Turkey and Japan after WWII, and most of his collection reflects that. However, he had a small badge with a black and white checkerboard pattern which I couldn't identify. Eventually, I determined that it was either a Bavarian or Prussian Observer's Badge.

My problem is that I am aware that there are fakes, and I don't know anything about this one except that he acquired it in 1948-52 in Turkey, Japan, or Hawaii. He never visited Germany. Also, the crown at the top of the badge is unusual. It is shaped like the Bavarian style badge, but there are cut-outs in the crown. The back has a small and illegible maker's mark on the pin.

Could someone help me identify this badge and let me know if it is real? Is there anyway to guess the age and value? Does anyone have a guess as to how this would have ended up in Turkey/Japan in the post WWII period? Any help is appreciated.

I have posted pictures which I hope will work.

[Doc]

Not my area, I am afraid, but I would also consider Polish. You may want to post this at the Gentlemen's Military Interest Club (Gentleman's Military Interest Club (Powered by Invision Power Board)), as they are really the experts in military insignia on the web. Doc

[Jim]

It is very hard to tell one way or the other from such a small photo. You are correct that there are a great many forgeries of these and many of the forgeries are good enough to fool experts. I have no idea how many forgeries are out there but my impression is the forgeries outnumber the real things by an enormous margin. Also, there are a great many re-strikes that were made from the orginal dies for several decades after the war for soldiers who were in the Great War and who liked to show they were by wearing the old style badges on their current uniforms. This was pretty common in the Second World War, for example. How do you know that he acquired it in 1948-52 in Turkey, Japan, or Hawaii? Did he pass away in 1952 and has the collection been in your possession since then? Most collectors never completely stop collecting and even when they put together a collection at some point in the past it is not at all unexpected to find things that they acquired more recently among them, especially things that do not seem to match the ordinary things they collected at that past time.

If this does turn out to be either authentic of the Great War period, or an official restrike for wear and use in the decades after the War, my guess is that it would most likely have been acquired in Turkey - given the choices of Turkey, Japan, and Hawaii. In 1914, Turkey entered the war as an ally of Germany and Austro-Hungary.

[JonnyKhan]

I don't actually know that this was acquired in the time frame given, but my grandfather served abroad during that time, and nothing else he owned (in terms of militaria) was dated any later than 1956 (that was an ashtray made from a mortar container given at his retirement the year he returned to America from Okinawa). He died several years before I was born (1980) and these items had been in my grandmother's closet since. He was a collector, but almost exclusively of Japanese art and antiques, and as far as I know he didn't acquire any new medals, badges, or decorations after he retired.

I learned from this website that German Aces flew for Turkey in the WWI, and this now seems to be the most plausible explanation for this badge's provenance if it is genuine. I'll check the website mentioned and also follow up on the Polish possibility. Sorry about the small photos, but I had to stay under the size requirement.

Thanks for your help.

[dak66]

I've seen this medal on Ebay

[dak66]

I'm positive what the diffrence is is that the crown on the Prussian Observer badge is pointed.

[jaba-the-hunt]

The badge shown on first thread is the bavarian observer badge not the prussian. The Kingdom of Bavaria was the only state in the german "Kaiserreich" wich have own aviation badges looks like the prussian but with different crown on the top.
All servicemen exept the bavarian got the prissian badges.

Regards

Alex